Did you noticed....... - Page 4

Pocus · #31 November 2nd, 2003, 08:54 PM

what bother me a bit (well more than a bit) is now that blood magic is much more restricted to native blood nations, then SC will concentrate into these nations.

Whereas, as a worst case, you could at least try to counter/temper the influence of SC (which are mostly blood creatures) in doms I by starting blood magic yourself (I remember a pbem game where after 15 turns of efforts, starting from nothing, I produced one ice devil every two turns with a mystic which was empowered in blood magic).

But this was a very poor workaround. What would have been better is to reduce much further the nastiness of big creatures in Doms II (several mechanisms can be found to increase how a sole creature can be mobbed by several smaller ones). With more than 12-15 demons prince available, there is in practice no reduction in the numbers of SC dominions games will see, with the annoying change that they will be controlled by the 4/5 blood nations.

HJ · #32 November 2nd, 2003, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pocus:
what bother me a bit (well more than a bit) is now that blood magic is much more restricted to native blood nations

This is not a counterargument, but a honest question. Why do you claim this? Is it not just a case of empowering like with everything else? I probably haven't played enough to perceive it, but would be interested to know what's the basis of a claim.

[ November 02, 2003, 19:47: Message edited by: HJ ]

Zerger · #33 November 2nd, 2003, 10:24 PM

Pretender SCs are lame. Period. I have no probs with the late game SCs, but IMHO the early pretender SC is a cheap way to abuse the AI.
I am talkin about Doms I. but this will be a problem in Doms II. as well, as I've seen it in the demo.

--This is not a prob. in MP, since everyone will use it.--

[ November 02, 2003, 20:29: Message edited by: Zerger ]

Pocus · #34 November 2nd, 2003, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HJ:

quote:
Originally posted by Pocus:
what bother me a bit (well more than a bit) is now that blood magic is much more restricted to native blood nations

This is not a counterargument, but a honest question. Why do you claim this? Is it not just a case of empowering like with everything else? I probably haven't played enough to perceive it, but would be interested to know what's the basis of a claim.

because the blood harvest mechanism restrictions (no more non blood leaders harvesting blood slaves, which is a good thing) prevent non blood nations to develop a strong blood economy. So only native blood nations will be able to summon the strong devils and demons which make the chassis of 90% of super combattants.

Perhaps it is possible to have a small blood economy to run (20 slaves a turn, for the sake of giving a number) if you are no national mages with blood, but as Demons/Devils Princes can be banished like global enchants, you can be sure that the native blood nations will have no problems removing the single SC you were able to summon, if they are your enemy.

Theorically, I dont see a problem in that, it appears legit that Demons&Devils are controlled by blood nations. But these big creatures should either be toned to a reasonable level, or should have problems fighting alone (like Super Pretenders).

Zerger · #35 November 2nd, 2003, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pocus:
But these big creatures should either be toned to a reasonable level, or should have problems fighting alone (like Super Pretenders).

Indeed, I agree with this.

HJ · #36 November 2nd, 2003, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pocus:
because the blood harvest mechanism restrictions (no more non blood leaders harvesting blood slaves, which is a good thing) prevent non blood nations to develop a strong blood economy.

I thought that all commanders have a blood hunt order? That's why I'm asking. Sure you can get more slaves if you start with blood, but you can also gather enough of them to empower a few mages even though you don't start with blood. Are there some other restrictions I am not aware of? What are the restrictions exactly,a nd how are they different from DomI?

[ November 02, 2003, 20:58: Message edited by: HJ ]

Sammual · #37 November 3rd, 2003, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HJ:

quote:
Originally posted by Pocus:
because the blood harvest mechanism restrictions (no more non blood leaders harvesting blood slaves, which is a good thing) prevent non blood nations to develop a strong blood economy.

I thought that all commanders have a blood hunt order? That's why I'm asking. Sure you can get more slaves if you start with blood, but you can also gather enough of them to empower a few mages even though you don't start with blood. Are there some other restrictions I am not aware of? What are the restrictions exactly,a nd how are they different from DomI?

It looks like the unreast hit for blood hunts is MUCH harder to knock down and I see less blood slaves as a result.

Sammual

johan osterman · #38 November 3rd, 2003, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by apoger:

Blood magic was diminished less than everything else even though it was a major problem in Dom I. What were you thinking? Limiting the super blood summons was good, but it's not limited enough. Still plenty of super combatant chassis to go around. Extra blood slaves can be used for "hordes from hell". HfH, by the way, is also going to be a major issue. Blood magic was too easy and too cheap, and your response was to make it easier and cheaper? I simply do not understand.

How is blood magic easier and cheaper? The only nation in the demo you can possibly claim this about is Abysia. Abysia now has a warlock apprentice for 150 gold. The warlock apprentice is certainly not cheaper then a scout with a sanguine dowsing rod. The warlock apprentice is only recruitable in provinces with castles and labs. I fail to see how this is cheaper and easier, especially since you have in other Posts claimed that the new reduced gold incomes will make mages scarce. Also the big blood summons are more expensive. And a popular blood summon like Father Illearth is now singular.

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Death magic was not changed. Death summons cost the same, and death mages can still summon skels. Any reason that elemental magic got crushed, but death comes through with no change?

Death summons where never as much of a problem as air and fire elementals, the death magic required for raise dead is primarily posessed by nations traditionally considered on the weak side, such as Ermor or Ctis.

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Wrathful skies. Did I not make it clear that this spell is an issue in Dom I? It's going to be much worse in Dom II. Having an enemy air mage cloud trapeze into my army and blow it away with wrathful skies... not fun.

How will this be worse in dom 2 than dom 1? Because of the reduced efficiency of the wards? This is a step that most people seems happy about otherwise.

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Almost all evocations got nerfed, however I predict that the classic quickness-orb lightning, will be back in force.

The Seithkona nether darts problem will also make a return.

Meanwhile most other evocations have become stunningly inaccurate. It brings new meaning to the phrase "can't hit the broadside of a barn". Mages can't hit AN ARMY that is standing out in front of them with a fireball. OK can't is too strong... can't hit 4 of 5 times. Spells like flying shards and fire flies are jaw dropping as they fan out across the entire length of the battlefield! Funny, yes... but not fun.

Evocations have not been nerfed, in fact precision above ten improves precision more than in dom 1. The source of your problem is the wider battlefield. The wider battlefield was introduced to make missile weapons more useful. Position your mages closer to the front if you want results similar to dom 1.

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High taxes destroying population in droves while low taxes have no effect. A design choice that I just cannot support. And not fun.

I still think this is an excellent design choice.

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various parts of the text snipped
There's still no reason to take a fort other than wizards tower or fortified city.

Sorry that this post has become a bit of a rant. However the "feel" of Dom II is slow. The "low resouce model" exacerbates the problems with game imbalance since any issue means more since players have less.

Nobody was as big a Dominions fanboy as me, and I'm not upset because the system has changed. I am upset because I percieve that the system has changed for the worse.

The various other castles are now more viable than ever before, part of this is due to the reduced income increase of admin.

Your claim that any imbalance means more because players have less is at best to vague to judge and at worst downright false. If players have less they also have less to produce imbalances with. By your argument the richer the world in dom 1 the more balanced it would be, this might be true by virtue of special sites or indeps blurring the distinctions between different naions, other than that I do not think it is much to support the conclusion.

Many of the complaints you give as reasons why things have gotten worse are complaints that things have not changed. And some things that have obviously changed for the better, such as with bloodsummons, you claim they have changed for the worse. Sure there might be instances that could do with balancing, but as you make out your case you grossly overstate it.

DominionsFan · #39 November 3rd, 2003, 02:27 AM

Johan....you should make some replies in some other threads as well...IE. AI threads etc.

Nerfix · #40 November 3rd, 2003, 02:31 AM

BTW Apoger, did you notice that Abysians have less precision than normal humans?

Some spells have less precision like Blade Wind(and i like it this way) or Star Fires (which i don't like this way) and some spells could use more precision(few Blood spells).

[ November 02, 2003, 12:35: Message edited by: Nerfix ]