German OOB 16 Corrections/Suggestions

[sturmovik]

Since all the current online records indicate that the G has effectively the same armour as the E I'll believe that over something I read on a website 10 years ago, but I might try looking through my paper records. I suspect the references to the G's extra armour was simply comparing it to the D.

[Mario_Fr]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

561 PzKw IVd - possible error in a name - it has a picture of IVf2 and long gun.

Michal, in the "encyclopedia of german tanks of ww2" by Chamberlain and Doyle I just found this on page 92: "Later, in 1943, several Ausf D were refitted with 7.5cm KwK L/48 for use with training and replacement units". There is also a photo of the upgunned tank.

Mario

[cbo]

Originally Posted by DRG

A source for that information would be helpful. The only difference in armour I can find between the E and G is the upper and lower hull front and turret front is one solid piece of 50mm armour instead of 25+25 with the result that there are fewer bolts on frontal plate, turret and engine deck.

Nothing about additional turret side armour so lets hear what you have on that ....

Don

Chamberlain & Doyle (Encyclopedia.....) says the same thing as does Spielberger in his book on Czech armour.

[Pibwl]

114 Panzerbuechse - there were 568 PzB 39 in 9/39 available (now starts at 1/40). There is only #250 FJg PzBuechse available from 7/39, but I don't think, that they were used by paratroops only then (and the paras generally weren't fighting in Poland at all)

BTW, the weapon could be better named just PzB 39, not 38/39 - 38 was a semi-auto weapon, which wasn't finally accepted and found very limited use, while PzB 39 was a different mass-produced weapon. Since they aren't available before 1939, there's no need to bother with marginal PzB 38, developed before 1939.

Maybe it's a good idea to rename "Panzerbuechse" units to indicate PzB model?

318 15.2cm Batterie - I'll attach proper picture of Soviet M-10 howitzer (now it's late-war D-1)

335 4.5cm PaK 184/1 - it has a picture of short-barrel gun. A proper picture for long barrel 45 mm is eg. Pm29366

346 MG08/18 MMG Grp - has first availability date later, than second

425 PzSpw.AB 41 - it would be worth to find a photo of specific German one. I'm attaching one proposal.

434 SdKfz 8 - current picture is SdKfz 7, what is evident by spoked wheels. I'm attaching a proposal.

467 PzKw T38 732(r) - the picture is actually T-37

495 GebJg PzBuechse - picture used in the game for 13.2mm ATR is 309 (I'm not sure however, if it's not PzB-39) - now it's probably 20 mm Solothurn. I'm attaching alternative 309 picture of 13.2mm Mauser.

570 PzKpfw Ia - it's a matter of months, and Jentz does not write clearly here, but starting date 7/34 is too optimistic - seems, that none were operational before 1/35 (first armoured divisions were being created during 1935. It might affect formations.

586, 587 P174/178 L204f - AFAIK there was no such car, as Panhard 174, just 178, and its German designation was for sure P204(f). I think, that German designation "P204(f)" should be enough, or "Panhard P204f". I'm attaching German pictures to replace generic one.

600 Panzerbuechse - picture - same as 495 above - now it's PzB-39. I'm attaching alternative 309 picture of 13.2mm Mauser.

BTW, what's a difference between weapons #142 Mauser T-Gewehr used by unit 600 and #90 13.2mm Mauser used by unit 417?.. AFAIK it is the same weapon.

601 Panzerbuechse - proper picture for Polish wz.35 AT rifle is 23510 (current 115 is PTRS - same situation in Polish oob)

603 Pzbuechse SS - correct weapon's designation is PzB M.SS.41, not MPzB 41

604 Ost Pzbuechse - picture should be Russian PTRD (eg. 23151 or 27105)

605 Ost Pzbuechse - pictures should be Russian PTRS (eg. 23150 or 27106).

734, 793 MG249(p) HMG - I can't find such designation, but if it's Polish wz.30 Browning (what suggests letter "p"), then picture 29695 would be more appropriate (now it's Vickers).

817 4.5cm PaK 184/1 - as unit 335 - proper picture for long barrel 45 mm is Pm29366

834 PzKw IIa/b - photo 27513 shows later variant, not initial a/b (small letters), which had six small roadwheels on a frame (there were later variants A/B with standard chassis, but availability dates suggest earlier ones)

842 SdKfz ADGZ - ADGZ is never used with "SdKfz" (which was used with numers only, btw). It could be names Steyr ADGZ (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steyr_ADGZ )

867, 868 630(r)3.7cm PaK - should be 630(f) (French) (or just UE instead of number)

875 sFH 13 LrS (f) - it has apparently picture of Marder I - could be just 0032 instead, or new picture with grey camo
(It should be armed with 15cm sFH-13 howitzer, with longer range, than sIG-33 infantry gun).

577, 939 PzKw B-2 740(f) - actually "B2" without "-".

925, 926 Do 17E, 17P - new picture of this "flying pencil" would ne nice - now it's late-war Do 217. I'm attaching a proposal.

927, 928 Do 17Z - I'm attaching a proposal picture for Do-17Z - now it's late-war Do 217

954 Pz T34a 747(r) - picture is T34b with F-34 gun, not earlier one with L-11 gun. I'm attaching a proposal in German service.

968 sIG38/2 (t) - according to Jentz's Panzer Tracts, apparently only one experimantal vehicle was produced. And it was open-topped.

976 sIG38/1 (t) - according to Jentz, it was produced only from 12/43 - now 5/43 (earlier there was older rear-engined model). This source recognizes old and new model as "Gw 38 fur sIG33/1" and "Gw 38M fur sIG33/2" respectively, or Grille and "Grille ausf K". In short could be "Gw38M sIG33/2" or Grille K.

978 SturmIG 33B - German short designation was StuIG 33 (without B)

997 Horch Kfz.70 - picture is Krupp Protze (Kfz.70)

Regards

[DRG]

Do you think you could possibly explain to me why, both last year and this, you wait until you know we are doing the final checks on the latest patch before dropping all this in my lap ??

Hmmmm ???

Explain please why not two months ago ?? Even a month ago ?? I would LOVE to know why you think waiting till the last minute is the best way to do this instead of ......oh IDK... last November even. Why March ??

Hmmmm ???

Why wait until the last couple of weeks ?

[Pibwl]

I knew it. Sorry, it's just a coincidence, that I started working upon pictures mod for SPWW2 only in February this year. Nobody told me about any deadline. If you had mentioned it after my first message in this topic a month ago, I'd complete it in few days. I was just spotting errors at own pace, as a side activity.

I hope, that you find some comments useful anyway - most are simple picture or name issues. If not, maybe next year...

Sorry to annoy you.

Regards
Michal Derela

[DRG]

March is ALWAYS when we are in the final testing and assembly of the patches. Has been for a number of years now

The info is welcome but your timing is terrible and two years in a row is a pattern....you did the same thing last year. I have already made a number of changes to that OOB which I think some of yours covers as well and *IF* I get a break in what I need to do I will look into this but, as I said, your timing is poor. I'm already putting in 16+ hour days and just logging on to the forums is a distraction I don't need some days

*IF* I hadn't thought you were done after the previous post I would have said something but I figured that was it and that last one came in just before I was finsihed with OOB work so it fit in to the schedule. I mean really.. that OOB has been gone over by more people than I care to count. It's usually a surprise when someone finds something to complain about and I figured you were done... the last thing I expected at this stage was another long list of "issues" for that OOB

Don

[Pibwl]

OK, I can see you point. I didn't know, that March is a time for updates for both games. As you might have seen, I wasn't active here before. So, I'll wait for newest files

(last year, with SPMBT, the situation was a bit different, since I had started several months before, and only I tried to throw as much corrections, as I could, before a deadline... )

Regards
Michal

[Pibwl]

Only a small clarification:

Originally Posted by Pibwl

978 SturmIG 33B - German short designation was StuIG 33 (without B)

Encyclopedia of German tanks calls it StuIG 33B, but in definite Panzer Tracts Jentz refers to it just as Sturminfanteriegeschuetz 33.