OT) Best Turn Based Game: Fantasy or Space or War

[Phoenix-D]

"The funny thing is, before Heroes of Might and Magic IV, the Last predecessor I played was Kings Bounty for the Commodore 64"

Yes! I have that game for PC. Love it, but to this day I can never beat it..I always run out of time.

Phoenix-D

[bostonrpgmania]

Hi BadAxe

very glad to find another age of sail 2 player here.
I recently got privateer's bounty as well
and it works very smoothly

[klausD]

It is because some people have an unfounded fear of anything mentioning the phrase "real-time". They see C&C and Warcraft/Starcraft and think that is all that real-time is. They do not realize the possibilities, and how pauseable real-time (where you can issue as many orders and view whatever you want while the combat is paused) is better for combat than any turn-based system.

Not at all, sorry. The problem is not the "understanding". Its the "not accepting". I do understand the concepts of real time, and I played not only command and conquer. I tested many real time games (even pausables like SFB etc.)

What you do not "understand" is that EVERY kind of real time game, if pausable or not, favors action to thinking. I am not willing to play a game in which it is important if I hit the mouse button at the correct second just to give some orders before he does the same a second later. And if he dont press his mouse button because he is thinking too slow, he will be annihilated. Very funny. This is not the game I want to play.

If you like to play games where it is important at which time I am hitting the mouse button play one of the myriad "4x" real time games out there. But dont try to convert one of the few remaining fortresses of good turnbased gaming, the SE series to trendy realtime. (trendy for me because I am playing games, computer and board, since 20 years now, and I was observing the upcoming of the real time mania first handed)

The problem is that pro real time opinions like yours (which are of course as valid as mine from a neutral point of view) are signalizing Aaron that its ok if he do SE5 with a Rt-tactical engine (instead of letting it as it is) Of course somebody (like me) has to do something against such lobbying.

tschüß
Klaus

[ March 20, 2003, 10:31: Message edited by: klausD ]

[klausD]

use to think like you.... then I tried EU and EU2 and my world turned around. Europa Universalis 2 is labeled as a RTS and indeed in the game the days continously tick down. However there is a pause button which can be pressed and you can look over your empire and make all the orders you need. This game spans 400 years of history ticking one day at the time. The game includes over 100 independent nations which act each and every day. It would be impossible to make this game true turn based. IMO even if it is label as RTS it feels much more like playing a turn based game.

I know both EUs, and and played them and I tried to like them, but I cannot. I am too much a pure turnbased player. And originally EU was a turnbased game - at least the swedish boardgame.

The boardgame was not that complex like the computer game but for an old wargamer (ASL, Streets of Stalingrad, Advanced 3rd Reich to name just a few) complexity has no meaning.

So I think they could have developed a turnbased EU, but they decided to do not, because they feared that all those mainstream pseudo wargamers outthere didnt like the game. I am happy that there are at least some older wargame designs (and very few new ones) which are still turnbased. I have to restrict myself to these old games, but what should I do? Maybe sometimes the hyperactive RT action fashion is over and people come back and design real games, not real time games.

Klaus

[ March 20, 2003, 16:29: Message edited by: klausD ]

[sharp]

Starcraft takes a helluva lot more than "can I click before him?". Lots of thought there (though admittedly you have to think fast).

[tesco samoa]

TOAW (if you like the strategic level IMO there is nothing better), the same is true for SPWaW on tactical level.

my votes for those games...

also

steel panthers 1

panzer general
allied general
battles of destny
empire
mule
shogun total war
pacific war
any of the battle ground games
perfect geneal

[Saarud]

I love strategy games. Been playing games for 25 years now and computer games for almost 20 years. I can't really pick one but here are some of those that have ruined my social life....

Space Empire 4 (But ofcourse!) Master of Magic, Chaos Overlord, Colonization, Imperialism 2, Battle Isle (all of them), Conquest of the New World Deluxe, Reach for the Stars (the old one), Empire, Genghis Khan 1, M.U.L.E., Emperor of the Fading Suns (very buggy and flawed game but IMO best design ever), Medeival Lords, Stars!, Harpoon, Rise of the West, SMAC/X and a bunch of others.

If I had to vote for just one game it would be Chaos Overlord which is a gang strategy games with cyperpunk settings where you are trying to get control of a city. The AI are very good but when playing this game against 4 other humans is when it really shines.

Originally posted by klausD:

quote:

---

It is because some people have an unfounded fear of anything mentioning the phrase "real-time". They see C&C and Warcraft/Starcraft and think that is all that real-time is. They do not realize the possibilities, and how pauseable real-time (where you can issue as many orders and view whatever you want while the combat is paused) is better for combat than any turn-based system.

Not at all, sorry. The problem is not the "understanding". Its the "not accepting". I do understand the concepts of real time, and I played not only command and conquer. I tested many real time games (even pausables like SFB etc.)

What you do not "understand" is that EVERY kind of real time game, if pausable or not, favors action to thinking. I am not willing to play a game in which it is important if I hit the mouse button at the correct second just to give some orders before he does the same a second later. And if he dont press his mouse button because he is thinking too slow, he will be annihilated. Very funny. This is not the game I want to play.

---

I use to think like you.... then I tried EU and EU2 and my world turned around. Europa Universalis 2 is labeled as a RTS and indeed in the game the days continously tick down. However there is a pause button which can be pressed and you can look over your empire and make all the orders you need. This game spans 400 years of history ticking one day at the time. The game includes over 100 independent nations which act each and every day. It would be impossible to make this game true turn based. IMO even if it is label as RTS it feels much more like playing a turn based game.

[ March 20, 2003, 12:26: Message edited by: Saarud ]

[Taz-in-Space]

The Last turn-based game I've gotten is Battlefleet 1939. It is shareware.
You can get it at: WWW.BATTLE-FLEET.COM

Registration is about $18 US

[Saarud]

[quote]Originally posted by klausD:

The boardgame was not that complex like the computer game but for an old wargamer (ASL, Streets of Stalingrad, Advanced 3rd Reich to name just a few) complexity has no meaning.

LOL yes I have those game and ASL is just one class itself when it comes to complexity. The reason I love ASL is because of it's complexity and I just love to sit and read the rules but I would rate it rather low on playabilty as it envolves more reading and rereading rules than actual playing.

Perhaps if you have played the AH boardgame Empire in Arms you might be glad to hear that a company is in process of converting it to PC. They are trying to keep it as true to the boardgame as possible.

[ March 21, 2003, 06:06: Message edited by: Saarud ]

[Saarud]

[/quote]ASL is my favorite game of any sort, just can't find people to play against. As for complexity, did you ever play SL towards the end, I had played that since it first came out, and by the time they made ASL, SL was a nightmare and ASL is fairly simple.[/QB][/quote]

Well I do own all the games in the SL series but I really only played the first one seriously. I still think the first scenario is one of the more fun ones. Not very complex if you play according to the rules in order they present it in the rulebook.

Personally I have stopped playing ASL and SL long time ago but I recently discovered HPS game series Squad Battles which resembles ASL system alot. I have to date only bought Squad Battles Eagles Strike (I plan to by them all) which deal with WW2 European front but the series also includes games dealing with the pacific theatre as well as other wars such as the Vietnam war. If you like ASL I can recommend Squad Battles. It's really great!