Nations with weakest troops - Page 5

Dedas · #1 February 17th, 2009, 01:48 PM

I reacted to labelling them as "worst" as well and can only concur with Baalz. People who build only one type of troop and then scream suck should be locked away with a bunch of markatas. There are several types of infantry with different flaws and strengths, use them together why don't you...

If that isn't enough boost or patch with magic.

JimMorrison · #2 February 17th, 2009, 02:08 PM

Well like was said before, it's hard to classify Caelum as in the bottom of the list, because Mammoths (much better than Elephants) can fuel your entire expansion.

As far as Bandar Log, Bucklers -are- considered a "shield", the 2 Parry may not seem like much vs missiles, but it is still far superior to not having a shield at all.

Ultimately a big problem, looking at the entire range of the "Bandar" nations troops, is the morale on their cheaper units. When you actually go for armored units, they tend to cost more in gold and resources than comparable human units, and overall they have more flaws than strengths.

As far as "good with buffs" goes, well sure. For those nations, generally Barkskin is readily available, but for Bandar Log specifically, you are not soon going to have access to Strength of Giants, without communioning your limited supply of Rishi to do it - and in the Very Hard research scenario the OP wants to play, relying on buffs to make your army more competitive, seems like a silly angle to go on.

I kind of liked the suggestion of playing Caelum or Bandar Log and not using tramplers at all - it seems a bit masochistic, but it sure would handicap you.

Dedas · #3 February 17th, 2009, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

As far as Bandar Log, Bucklers -are- considered a "shield", the 2 Parry may not seem like much vs missiles, but it is still far superior to not having a shield at all.

Yes, shields parry count double when under missile fire meaning 4.

Baalz · #4 February 17th, 2009, 02:09 PM

Exactly, compare this to, say, Caelum with very little magic. Your opponent deploys mammoth counters, and you.....do what? As I mentioned, I guess it's a different question if you're talking about playing against the AI where there will be no mammoth counters, I can't think of many tougher positions than playing Caelum with light magic against an astral opponent with Thau-2 (mind burn) researched, or massed longbows, or etc. etc.

JimMorrison · #5 February 17th, 2009, 02:15 PM

Well it may be useful to try to remember to frame this discussion around the OP's actual initial question - what nations have the weakest troops for fighting the AI, when combined with reduced magic via Very Hard research".

Honestly, I think it will be easier to debate, as in the framework of Normal research, and competitive MP play, just about anything can be polished up to look dangerous.

VedalkenBear · #6 February 17th, 2009, 02:21 PM

Jim: Yes, this is a good idea. If you ignore commanders, EA Rlyeh is really quite pitiful in its troop selection. The best idea I can think of for them is to screen their Soul Suckers (TM!) with chaff until you can 'harvest' better troops. And that still relies on the commanders.

CBM adds the Trolls, but I'm still not that impressed with them.

Of course, Rlyeh has the usual 'water nation' advantages, and the commander strategy doesn't require magic, but it's remarkably fragile.

At least,so I've found so far... if someone has suggestions, I'd be quite open to them.

JimMorrison · #7 February 17th, 2009, 02:27 PM

Yeah that's the thing, if you take high scales, you can start stocking up Mind Lords ASAP. All he has to do is consolidate the oceans if he plays them, then he can really just take his time crawling on land, if he wants. The typical easy way is to plan to Clam like crazy for a few years once you're safe.....

It is true that natively they have the hardest time crawling out onto dry land with their recruitables, but in SP, you have all the time in the world, pretty much (though I had one recent SP ruined by LA Ermor casting Burden of Time

).

Meglobob · #8 February 17th, 2009, 02:29 PM

Well, I think caelums troops could have alot of fun raiding monkey PD. The monkey armies can't be everywhere and you never know where caelums flyers are off too next.

Caelums PD I actually like, for the simple reason they are flyers and jump on any cloud trapezing/teleporting mages/thugs in the 1st round. Occassionally, getting lucky.

I will stick with Bogarus for weakest troops thou...

VedalkenBear · #9 February 17th, 2009, 02:35 PM

Meglobob: I'm not sure how tenable that is with research being weak. That increases the worth of their cavalry. Sure, their Archers are basically indy archers, but at least they have them. Their infantry is not impressive, but they have shields, and decent stats, so what else can you ask for? Their cavalry is adequate, and better in these circumstances. You even get Stealthy troops with ancillary benefits (unrest).

I would think that MA Agartha is worse than Bogarus, if only because you have very few options. I think they get Crossbows, but not many good options.

Gokufan1988 · #10 February 17th, 2009, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VedalkenBear

I would think that MA Agartha is worse than Bogarus, if only because you have very few options. I think they get Crossbows, but not many good options.

They actually don't get crossbows. Just light, medium and heavy infantry and normal/giant pale ones.

Also, someone mentioned that you'd need to use a communion of Rishis to cast strength of giants as Bandar Log. Actually, they get to summon national E3/4 mages for 25 nature gems at conj4 I think.