MP: Asia Twist - Wraithlord Wins!

[WraithLord]

(I know it's better that I completely ignore you but I'll make this last response.)
Yes this is flame. You are using abusive language towards me and another good player and you are making ridiculous accusations.

I had the game firmly in my grip ever since I crushed your armies in open battle and gave you staggering losses. Ever since, you haven’t contested any VP I took. I had all the VPs in the game under my surveillance and had just made a simple observation that R’lyhes were the least defended and that his main army was tied up protecting another of his VPs from you. I had warned Aristander that I consider his VPs fair game and then concentrated on taking them. I did all that while you were feebly trying and failing to acquire those last VPs you needed. In addition you chose to squander your time and resources on raiding and casting (futile) assassination spells at me. All this while I secured 8 VPs so firmly that nothing you could have thrown at me would have made a difference – and that’s a fact otherwise I wouldn’t have won this game. Last turn I had a huge army at Caelum gates and assassinated lots of his mages + his SoS mage. Add that to my huge GWing army and many teleporting SCs and it’s clear that I’d have take the eight next turn as well. I had werewolves and Tart SCs coming out of my ears and they were backed by lot’s of teleporting crystal mages.

You are just proving yourself as a bad loser and a whiner. That in itself doesn’t bother me nor your abusive language towards me. I’m upset that you are bad mouthing Aristander. He was at war against you and managed to heroically defend his VP from you to the last turn.

That’s it. You’ll get no more responses from me. Feel free to go on with your whining if that’s your thing.

[vfb]

Originally Posted by PashaDawg

Hello:

Jotunheim has won the game. Congratulations, Wraithlord!

Thanks to all for playing.

By the way, any critiques about the map would be appreciated, in case I make another big map. What was good. What as kooky or annoying. No obligation to comment, of course.

Pasha

Hi Pasha, I'm playing on Asia Twist, in Beyond, not here. I really like the style of your maps, but the only point I didn't like about this one is it's a little big for the end game, just for my personal taste. Good points IMO are the diverse terrain, nice atmosphere from the map artwork, and good use of mountains and water for choke points. The archipelago also sets up a good dominion battle with whoever is in the water and whoever is on the islands. Oh, and I was very happy to capture the island where I live IRL!

Anyway, I'd love to see you do a wrap-around 8-to-10 player map in the AsiaTwist/Alexander style.

[mscfish]

Congratulations to wraithlord for the winning.
Also thanks pasha for your hard work on this game.
It's very happy for me to join this game.

[WraithLord]

Thank you mscfish. You have done very well in this game. So good in-fact that none of the super powers wanted to mess with you.

Frankly speaking, I was watching (not to say, coveting) your VP as well. Each turn I'd do a summary of all VPs not owned by me and sort them according to the defending forces. Your VP was consistently the third from the last right after R'lyehs VPs
The only reason I didn't attack you (and mind you we never had a formal NAP so I could do that) is for fear that your pretender and mages can all GW in a pinch, besides I preferred to attack a target that Van would not expect, that and knowing that R'lyehs army is tied up protecting his last VP decided the matter

I watched your moves this game. I think you handled MA Ermor well. In-fact seeing your battles gave me this craving to play Ermor in my next game so thank you for that as well

[archaeolept]

christ, such manifest dissimulation to top it all off wraithlord.

for the record, what Wraithlord claims as Aristander's "heroic defense" of his VP, or "knowing that R'lyehs army is tied up protecting his last VP" - as was known to all in the area, I had one shambler sieging that VP. Rlyeh had a huge teleporting army who could easily have defended his cap or his other VP. But, according to WL, it was somehow necessary for him to use his whole army to ward off my solitary shambler.

This end-game was rigged, and a set-up, and I have never seen the like in all my years of playing Dominions. Now, some may feel that intentionally throwing a game in this situation is fine. Others may not.

The turn files are available from Pasha for anyone who would like to see what actually went down.

When I was first concerned that this is what was happening, I expressed my unease to Pasha. He assured me that Wraithlord was a gentleman. I can't give his motivations for saying that in response to my worries; perhaps they were completely unrelated.

[WraithLord]

Ok. I'll try to put on an AAR. Hopefully I won't get to tied up and be able to complete it. I'll do this in small steps. So w/o further ado:
The chronicles of Burn the ultimate god of AsiaTwist map (well ultimate just below Pasha's heavy feat that is )

Turns 1-10:
1. Burn, Imprisoned Earth Mother E9N9 Dom-8 great scales.
Why I chose her?- I personally prefer either SC or rainbow mages but wanted to try this new (to me ) fashion
that everyone seemed so excited about - heavy bless.
Prophetize Gere the Jotun herse. He'll stay alive through most of the game and will have a place in HoF.
recruit woodsman and my fav Jotum mage: the Vaetti hag.

2. Take starting army and woodsman and move towards first indie province.
recruitment is same as first turn.

3. 0 losses. Take another indie province.

4. same. Ashdod leads the expansion race.

5. Gere enters HoF with light. reflexes.

6. 2nd army (woodsman led by a jarl) joins expansion.

7. Upgrade to two new indie provinces per turn. 3rd army out the gates.
Ashdod and Van lead the expansion race.

8. Meet both TC and Ctis. A fatefull meeting. With TC I'll keep the peace until the end game and have great relations.
Ctis with it's offensive Miasma domain I conceive as a problem and start working on a plan to eliminate it.

9. Expand - 3 indie provinces per turn.
Ashdod leads the race.

10. Meet Pythium, Bandar and Pan. With the former two I sign NAPs.
With Pan I also sign NAP but somehow it doesn't feel that secure.
I have a bad feeling re. Pan and later Caelum disposition towards me all game long.
At one point later on my fears came true as both attacked me

[archaeolept]

Anyways, I would like to express that overall this has been a great game. I had many epic struggles against pythium, bandar, eriu, TC and rlyeh. The map is beautiful, and a nice twist on traditional Dominions maps. The only quibble I might have with it is the large number of scrub island provinces; I would probably consolidate a few of them myself.

I'll just lay the facts out here as to what happened in these final turns, so that the precise situation can be known by everyone. The turns are available from Pasha for anyone who doubts my account.

I was sieging one of rlyeh's VP's, with a middling little raiding army (as the castle had been undefended). I knew I had little chance, as rlyeh could easily get forces there, so I did not assault with my tart that was also sieging. Rlyeh (who was being subbed by rdonj) responded w/ a breathtaking 25 or so full starspawn, a large bunch of illithids, an astral hero, and a ton of chaff. It was an imposing force, and the major event in rdonj's last sub turn. According to him " this last turn is actually mostly wraithlord." Which was fair enough - a sub looking to a common enemy for advice. The point being that this potent force was explicitly known to WL, as likely he had a good hand in designing it.

That same turn my probing assault was repulsed, WL teleported in a few sieging SCs to another of Rlyeh's VPs. Had he been taking advantage of a substitute player, or was he already assured by Aristander that there would be no defense? This was a good anti-SC force; tarts equipped w/ gatecleavers. I didn't counter them, as I could get no response from Aristander, and I had just lost a fair force fighting WL to protect Caelum's cap, and expected that rlyeh could handle them. WL took this w/ no opposition at all - yet who assaults what one should expect to be a horrendous amount of astral power fronted at the gates w/ a ton of non-routing chaff, w/ tarts equipped w/ gatecleavers, unless, of course, you are assured you will not be defended against?

Now, I had huge turns to do, which were difficult as I had a sinking feeling in my stomach that the game was now being thrown; correctly as it turned out. It was in this context that Pasha reassured me that wraithlord was "a gentleman". The context surely implied that a "gentleman" wouldn't be involved in such activities, but I'll let Pasha speak for himself, if he wishes. Nevertheless, I got in my turns.

Repeat then for Rlyeh's cap. Rlyeh kept his full force away from WL, and did nothing to defend when he could have easily, as WL was assaulting w/ one earth mother w/ a gatecleaver, and one tartarian. It is clear there was collusion to throw the game between Wraithlord and Aristander. That Rlyeh needed his full army to defend against one shambler is an amazing claim.

Now, throwing a game is a borderline activity, and it is up to the community to decide whether it feels such playstyle is warranted, or to be encouraged. Personally, I haven't seen anything so low since fighting Norfleet's hacked armies. That's where I learned to play; I refused to give in to that, and likewise I will not stand silent in this case.

Now, dear readers, if there are any , you may go back and peruse Wraithlord's recent posts and see how his spin jibes with the situation as presented.

Wraithlord would like to make the claim that he would have won anyways, but this is not the case. I had lost some major forces defending caelum, but so had he. It is clear that one does not stoop to having a game thrown to you if you feel assured you could win by normal means.

[WraithLord]

Turns 11-15:
11. Reached evoc. 2 for Arcane probing.
Steady expansion rate of 3 provinces per turn gets me near to top of the provinces/income charts.

12. cont. expansion

13. Now expanding at rate of 4 provinces per turn
For the first time leading province/income charts.

14. Expanding some more.

15. Trade with Oceania gives me lot's of nature gems that I really need.
Ashdod and me have very high profile. Both are candidates for a sound dog piling

[archaeolept]

12. cont. expansion

I guess this is Wraithlord's version of "nah nah nah I can't hear you"

[rdonj]

I need to learn how to control my mouth when subbing, as it is clear my comments have added directly to this fiasco, heh. I can't say as to whether the game was "thrown" or not, that is for aristander and wraithlord to say.

However, on the subject of whether it is acceptable to "throw" a game, I would like to comment. Personally, I have done this, in my second game. It was a noob game and early on, I allied myself with one of my neighbors. I decided I didn't care about winning, so long as the person who guaranteed my not winning was unable to claim victory. So, later in the game, when that player went AI and it was just me, my ally and another player standing, we called the game in favor of my ally, and I had no problem with giving him the win. I could have given my ally a pretty good fight, and maybe, just maybe beaten him. But I never had any intention of fighting him. Of course, it was never my intention to win that game. Just not to lose. But I felt no shame in allowing the win to go to my ally rather than my enemy.

If there is a nation which I really don't want to see winning the game, vs a nation who I'm allied with, and I have no chance to win the game myself... I will probably choose to back the one I dislike the least. Even if I'm not the one who wins, it gives me the satisfaction of my "side" winning. This sort of thing happens all the time. Giving someone your VPs to let them win is not really much different in my opinion.