Scouting/Recon

[RERomine]

The difference is the Blitz scoring process has given the flags value beyond their raw points. Another significant difference is most Blitz battles are stand alone. You don't have to worry about the next battle like you do in a campaign.

If it was a PBEM campaign using the Blitz format, I'd rather let my opponent get all the flags while I rip the heart out of their force knowing they won't be worth much in future battles. Also, using the Blitz format, it is still possible to capture all the flags and still not win.

I think we are getting off topic some, however.

[Imp]

Agree of topic & "it is still possible to capture all the flags and still not win" Of course it is they are just of greater value making going for more worthwhile. Regardless of format in a campaign preservation of your force is a high priority

[c_of_red]

Originally Posted by DRG

WinSPMBT is NOT "a port of SP3" READ THE $#!*! GAME GUIDE! that question is answered in the very first line right below "What is WinSPMBT?"

Don

Ok, I did;
"What is WinSPMBT"

WinSPMBT (Windows, Steel Panther, Main Battle Tank) is a Post WWII combined arms tactical level wargame.

Its time frame covers 1946 to 2020 AD. WinSPMBT has 92 Nations forces available for historical or "what-if" experimental battles. It is hexagon based, and the game is an alternating turn based(I go YOU go or IGOUGO) design.

One unit playing piece represents one vehicle or gun, or an infantry section or squad of up to 13 men or section of 1 to 4 support weapons. Therefore, 1 machine gun or mortar piece can represent 2 or 3 actual MG or mortars.

One game hexagon represents 50 meters of terrain.

One game move (player 1 turn plus player 2 turn) represents roughly 3 minutes of 'real time'."

Barring typos, that is the opening section of the WinSPMBT manual that comes with the CD.

So either the CD I bought had a different manual, or you were speaking of a different "What is WinSPMBT". I will confess to never having read the online manual, since the paper manual is outstanding.

My thinking that WinMBT was a port from SP3 relates back to the days before Cammo and Matrix split up. Rumors out here in the hinterland was that the split was in part due to how to migrate away from DOS to Windows. One side wanted to do a quickie on the SP3 code, which was already Windows based and the other side wanted to Port up everything. Nothing new here, this conflict has been going on ever since networking and distributed processing starting killing off the main frame and batch processing.
It seems I had it wrong about which side wanted to do what and I apologize if I offended you.
Don, Like all serious SP players ( serious being 8 hours a day or more devoted to this hobby/obsession) I admire and respect your efforts. If I didn't, I wouldn't be in the position to make the errors I do.
My communication skills are not the best. When you see something posted by me that seems critical in a non-constructive or disrespectful manner, it is because I am communicating poorly. If you were referring to a different "What is WinSPMBT", then I am unaware of it. A different "What is WinSPMBT" would mean there are more then 1. So How am I to know which version you are quoting?

[DRG]

My copy of the game, both the master working copy and the "virgin copy" I keep for every upgrade has this......

What is WinSPMBT?

WinSPMBT ( Windows, Steel Panthers, Main Battle Tank ) is a Post World War II combined arms tactical level wargame derived from SSI's Steel Panthers: Modern Battles ( SP2 ) code.

That's the "Last Updated March, 2009" version that went out with V4.5

So what version of the game are you playing ?

The paper manual is not updated with every release and was only intended to be a "quick start" reference manual. The HTML manual is the main " Game Guide" and the only thing I quote. If you haven't read the HTML manual you are missing everything we added since V1 was released

Don

[DRG]

Originally Posted by c_of_red

My thinking that WinMBT was a port from SP3 relates back to the days before Cammo and Matrix split up. Rumors out here in the hinterland was that the split was in part due to how to migrate away from DOS to Windows. One side wanted to do a quickie on the SP3 code, which was already Windows based and the other side wanted to Port up everything. Nothing new here, this conflict has been going on ever since networking and distributed processing starting killing off the main frame and batch processing.
It seems I had it wrong about which side wanted to do what and I apologize if I offended you.

"Matrix" didn't exist then. It was "TGN" and upon completion of what we list as "Version 2.0" I was "informed" that the DOS fomat was going to be ditched and most of the work tossed out so that the SP3 code could be used.

For the record ( and this has already been discussed on this or the WinSPWW2 forum ) both Andy and I LOATHED SP3 and we weren't too impressed ( to put it mildly... ) with the way things were unfolding and that's why gamers ended up with a "WaW" version of SP based on the SP3 code and since 2005 a Windows compliant SPMBT and since 2006 a Windows compliant SPWW2 version of SP based on a highly modified version of the SP2 code to choose from. We stuck with DOS until 2004 then the writting was on the wall and we decided it was time to go to Windows .

Don

[Imp]

Okay thats intresting I no longer have WAW on my system so cant check but it explains something, if I am correct a glaring oversight. As far as I remember it uses similar scales as in 50metres 3mins & unit ranges & ROF bear this out. Somehow though when they converted the scale they messed up unit speeds entirely unless the game turn is a lot longer in which case they assume units dont fire very frequently.

[c_of_red]

For the record, I loath both SP3 AND W@W. It's that spidy sense and the Rambo crews. I did like the Special ops infiltration and the Engineers being able to place 'booby traps' or IED during the game. SP3 just didn't interest me, there are several batter games on the operational level.
I'm sorry, but I don't read the E-Manual. Reading lots of text off a screen gives me major headaches. So all I had to go by was the Paper one that came with the CD. RTFM takes some of the fun out of it.

[DRG]

Then print out the sections you are interested in and read them off paper

Don

[c_of_red]

That means getting the printer to work. I haven't used it since the 20th century. I would guess that the cartridge is a bit dry. I upgrade my computer, but I never bother to upgrade the printer, since I never use it.
Besides, One Cannot know everything. So by stepping on my crank every now and then I find out just what I think I know as compared to what I really know. Besides I have a strange memory. I can remember a game we played back in the mid to late 90's but I can't remember where I left my coffee cup 10 minutes ago.
So RTFM might not help without the on map reinforcement of playing the lesson through. So pay me no mind, I'm just another a$$hole and you are doing a most excellent job. I will be more careful in the future for fear of leading the FNG's astray.

[runequester]

Originally Posted by c_of_red

For the record, I loath both SP3 AND W@W. It's that spidy sense and the Rambo crews. I did like the Special ops infiltration and the Engineers being able to place 'booby traps' or IED during the game. SP3 just didn't interest me, there are several batter games on the operational level.
I'm sorry, but I don't read the E-Manual. Reading lots of text off a screen gives me major headaches. So all I had to go by was the Paper one that came with the CD. RTFM takes some of the fun out of it.

yeah, the infiltration is one of the things I did like. Ditto for the option where units start with a few men missing and not at full ammo.

Generally though, winSPWW2 and MBT has them beat hardcore though