Clams overpowered?

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Pirateiam:
I know whenever I meet a vampire on the street I have an overwhelming need to set them on fire!

You meet vampires on the street? Gotta wonder what the hell you're doing on the street at the hours that vampires would be walking around on them, though.

I dunno if an overwhelming urge to set people who look like vampires, I.E., "Goths", is really a vampire vulnerability. If anything, it indicates you're mostly normal, perhaps with slightly pyromaniacal tendencies.

I, on the other hand, feel an urge to set people, regardless of whether they are or aren't vampires, on fire. Of course, this would be illegal and counterproductive, so I resist. I may be a homicidal pyromaniac, but I'm not stupid.

[ April 16, 2004, 18:31: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

[Reverend Zombie]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
I, on the other hand, feel an urge to set people, regardless of whether they are or aren't vampires, on fire. Of course, this would be illegal and counterproductive, so I resist. I may be a homicidal pyromaniac, but I'm not stupid.

Now that's just an inflammatory statement.

[ April 16, 2004, 18:51: Message edited by: Reverend Zombie ]

[Endoperez]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

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Originally posted by mnoracle:

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blood stones are both at a normal cost/benefit rate

Hmm... let me see, blood stones 20+5, but they are also pump earth magic skill. Thinking that you can easily amass huge numbers of blood slaves, i don't see where is the main difference with clams.
So BS are broken!!!

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To get to 200 earth stones, which is the equivalent in magical income to 100 clams, will cost you 4000 blood slaves if you don't have hammers on your forgers, or 3000 slaves if you do. The stones do produce earth gems to pay for that part, but you can't alchemize gems into blood slaves.

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200 Blood Stones are better than 100 clams, just because you can get what you would get for pearls AND you can use those earth gems without changing them to pearls first. 100 Blood Stones are just as useful to nations who have mages able to use them, Earth has some nice summons, many good items and few but potent rituals. Earth Attack is amazing... Versus normal commander atleast.

[Chris Byler]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

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Originally posted by Norfleet:
For a non-hoarder to win against a hoarder, he merely needs to halt the hoarding: If mages who make clams keep getting eaten by horrors, the hoarding will stop shortly.

So, now Mictlan and Abysia can do something about it if the clam hoarder hasn't been smart enough to put domes on his provinces.

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IIRC, domes won't stop Astral Corruption.

Sadly, tons of astral gems *will* stop Astral Corruption, and it's also very expensive and a very high research level. Also, it does nothing to the clams you already have.

I still feel that if there is any problem (and not just insufficiently aggressive play against a turtle strategy), it is that water magic doesn't do enough other worthwhile things, perhaps partly because cold immunity is so common. It's easy to find other uses for astral gems, but not so easy to find other uses for water gems.

[Reverend Zombie]

not just insufficiently aggressive play against a turtle strategy

Right. Won't a "rush" take out a clam-hoarder?

[HotNifeThruButr]

Originally posted by Reverend Zombie:

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not just insufficiently aggressive play against a turtle strategy

Right. Won't a "rush" take out a clam-hoarder?

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Firstly, there are indies to take out before you reach the hoarder.

Secondly, clams only cost gems, they can still make troops at an acceptable rate to slow you down or stop you dead.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Chris Byler:
Sadly, tons of astral gems *will* stop Astral Corruption, and it's also very expensive and a very high research level. Also, it does nothing to the clams you already have.

Tons of astral gems may not be available to an aspiring clam hoarder, if most of his astral gems have then gone back to water gems to make clams. As Astral Corruption is a blood spell, it uses blood slaves, which are far easier to acquire in large quantities until well into the advanced stages of clam hoarding: Getting 100+ slaves/turn by turn 15 is perfectly possible, whereas by that time, a clam hoarder is probably only barely starting to begin his hoarding.

It does, also, indirectly affect the use of clams: A clam hoarder will suddenly find his aspiring stocks of astrals greatly limited in use if any attempt to do anything with them results in the offending mage being eaten by a horror. Even if he attempts a dispel, failure results in the offender being eaten by a horror, and blood slaves are still more available than astrals. Astral Corruption is also an L7 blood spell, whereas Wish is an L9. You'll have access to Corruption before he can start wishing for doom horrors.

Of course, Graeme has a point that Mictlan and Abysia have the easiest access to this, but as Zen states, any living nation can be a blood nation. It's simply going to be a fact of life that the same countermeasures aren't equally available to everyone. That's why nations are stronger against some nations and weak against others.

I still feel that if there is any problem (and not just insufficiently aggressive play against a turtle strategy), it is that water magic doesn't do enough other worthwhile things, perhaps partly because cold immunity is so common. It's easy to find other uses for astral gems, but not so easy to find other uses for water gems.

Amen.

[Pirateiam]

Originally posted by Norfleet:

quote:

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Originally posted by Pirateiam:
I know whenever I meet a vampire on the street I have an overwhelming need to set them on fire!

You meet vampires on the street? Gotta wonder what the hell you're doing on the street at the hours that vampires would be walking around on them, though.

I dunno if an overwhelming urge to set people who look like vampires, I.E., "Goths", is really a vampire vulnerability. If anything, it indicates you're mostly normal, perhaps with slightly pyromaniacal tendencies.

I, on the other hand, feel an urge to set people, regardless of whether they are or aren't vampires, on fire. Of course, this would be illegal and counterproductive, so I resist. I may be a homicidal pyromaniac, but I'm not stupid.

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Ohhhh boy......Goths???....you mean those pastey white people wearing black clothes and black lipstick were NOT blood sucking vampires????? ....Oh sh@t...must hide blow torch and stakes....ummm anybody know a good Lawyer????

[SelfishGene]

Must i always be the one that must come up with the solutions for the world's most troubling problems?

Clam of Pearls
2 Water 1 Astral
Cost 10 Water gem, 5 Pearls

Thanks .

[HotNifeThruButr]

Norfleet already suggested a rise in price for clams.