MP: Lunar Sea - a second bout of modness. Closed - map selection underway.

[Herr Heimlich]

Would it eliminate some of those problems, if we´d use a mod less?

[Gregstrom]

I doubt it.

[pyg]

Originally Posted by Zeldor

Hmm... I think there are some problems still. I summoned Guardian of the First Flame and he has no description at all. And no abilities [maybe he shouldn't have?] and just Fist attack.

OK, this one isn't really my fault because Guardian of the First Flame/Stone aren't defined in Priests and Sacreds, but in Holy War Divine. This means the Priests and Sacreds will have this problem if you use it on its own. IMO, the proper fix is up to Burnsaber, but I've created a new fixed version of the mod here. Thanks for all the thorough testing!

[Zeldor]

It looks like using those mods really messes with magic sites, so many turn to be holy sites [and mostly useless ones], 55% settings feels like about 30%, so we'd need to probably use 75% to even get near original magic sites amount.

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by Zeldor

And how can someone complain about getting one of the best nations in the game?

I'm not complaining, I was just asking if I could trade. I just dislike playing with over-the-top power nations, especially with the current nation pool we have over here. It just so close to cheating you know? Like if your friend came over to play some wicked fast paced Street Fighter and you would give your quest the old stiff controller with the broken block button while keeping the new one for yourself (and abusing his inability to block with attacking relentlessly).

But anyways, most of my beef with Sauromatia directly relates to Androphag Archers. I won't get into a rant about them here, but I just realized that there is no force on earth preventing me from just refraining myself form recruiting them. So no need to switch nations anymore.

Originally Posted by pyg

OK, this one isn't really my fault because Guardian of the First Flame/Stone aren't defined in Priests and Sacreds, but in Holy War Divine. This means the Priests and Sacreds will have this problem if you use it on its own. IMO, the proper fix is up to Burnsaber, but I've created a new fixed version of the mod here. Thanks for all the thorough testing!

Yeah, the thing is intentional. I admit that it's really clunky, but when I was making that mod, some people expressed very heavy opinions about not wanting the mod make any changes to vanilla nation, so I added the option of disabling the more "extreme" changes by splitting the mod in two. Once I get around to updating the mod (in a month? or two?), I'll combine the mods into one to avoid stuff like this.

Originally Posted by Zeldor

It looks like using those mods really messes with magic sites, so many turn to be holy sites [and mostly useless ones], 55% settings feels like about 30%, so we'd need to probably use 75% to even get near original magic sites amount.

I have tested the distribution of holy sites granted by the Holy War mod twice, with values 10% and 9% of sites being holy (after the tests, I more sites uncommon/ rare, so I think it should be on about 8% now). I have no clue what the amount is with the magic sites mod. I think it adds some more holy sites too. However, I don't think that ranking up the magic site setting will help, the problem is most likely in the amount of common sites. If you rank up the magic site setting, it would just end giving more of those useless sites.

I can go through the sites on the mod on sunday evening and pump like 50% of Holy Wars and Magic Site Mods common sites into uncommon/ rare* (while I'm at it, I could disable that ridicilous autocast darkness mage site). That would correlate directly on giving 50% less "useless" sites.

*note that common sites are ridiciliously more common than the others. Pumping a site from common to uncommon is almost like disabling it for the purposes of a single game.

P.S if you found some HW sites being useless, please give feedback on the HW mod thread [link in signaure], so that I can do something about it in the next version.

[Gregstrom]

IIRC, aren't some of the sites in Holy War duplicates of ones in the Site Mod? If so, removing the duplicates would help.

I'm quite happy to bump up site % anyway.

[Zeldor]

Burnsaber:

I know you were joking I am rather surprised that someone put Sauro into the pool.

My complaint is not the % of holy sites, but that they are doing almost the same. It feels much harder to find magic sites now and when you try to be happy about it, you can't. You get that "Cool! Magic site!" and after that "Oh, it lets me recruit what? H1 guys? and some medium infantry troops? Where are my gems?". So my problem is that they are way too similar to each other [lame troops + some holy or H1 weak guys] and take away from your income.

Also, all that sites add troops, mages etc, but it's hard to get gold for them at default settings.

[pyg]

Originally Posted by Gregstrom

IIRC, aren't some of the sites in Holy War duplicates of ones in the Site Mod? If so, removing the duplicates would help.

It looks like only 6 are duplicated and they are all underwater sites. I can remove them if you like but I doubt they will make a big impact on the game.

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by pyg

It looks like only 6 are duplicated and they are all underwater sites. I can remove them if you like but I doubt they will make a big impact on the game.

Okay, I went through the mod. I disabled the "autocast darkness" mage site and disabled some of the most boring HW holy sites to prevent everyone from drowning in templars. I also went through the magic site mod and moved up all common sites that gave just recruits and no gems in rarity.

With the changes I made, I think we should roll with like 55% magic site setting to get the gem income of a normal game. The attached file contains just the .dm file.

[Zeldor]

I will test it tomorrow and try to check most of summons etc and how it looks at 55% site settings.