[OT] Another heated discussion about the Iraq siutation, war and politics. - Page 61

Fyron · #**601** March 26th, 2003, 02:41 AM

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Conclusion: because there is not UN support for this, it means its illegal... and give the sign for more chaos & war.

Actually, that does not make it illegal. The UN is not the source of legality.

Some1 · #**602** March 26th, 2003, 02:47 AM

http://www.idleworm.com/nws/2002/11/iraq2.shtml

maybe you have seen it, maybe not, but its IMO the situation. (And i hope, never turns out to be consequences..)

A question i like to ask the "pro" war people (Not that anyone wants war, but you support this one).
What do you think about the "Robust Nuclear Earth Penetrator, RNEP" the US made/developed Last year (Its a nuclear bomb, made to penetrate deep into the earth and destroy bunkers)?? Is it right to use something like that?? (even develope it) When you are fighting a war against a regime and its WMD.

Another question. Does the US want a democracy in Iraq? Or just a regime that supports the US better then this one? Does anyone think that the US would allow a democratic regime that doesn't support the US and its politics?

Im just curious what everyone thinks.

R.

p.s. Im against this war AND against Sadam, i just think this (war) isn't the right way to get rid of him.

TerranC · #**603** March 26th, 2003, 02:59 AM

Ok, if you quote me so good, why not reading it? I said i was against THIS was. I know that war is (and should in some situations) be the Last resort, but this wasn't it. Why?

- Because this war triggers even more hate in the region/world against USA & the west. So you end with more problems then you start with. (look at the little flash like i gave before)

No, just the USA. And all this percieved hate against the US isn't against the US, it's really more at Dubya and his administration.

- Because this war give a sign to the rest of the world that WMD is the only way to carve out your place, so that no one can touch you.

If this war succeeds, it will give a sign to the rest of the world that developing WMDs will only get your regime toppled, no matter what the world opinion is.

- Because this war gives the right to countries like Turkey to invade north Irak, cause they tread their country too. Even North Korea to invade South, China- tibet, Russia-formerSU countries....etc. everyone is a tread to the other in their opinion (with war or thoughts). What USA does, make it legimate for them too.

This war does not give those countries to invade those regions/countries. This war isn't about conquest, for god's sakes.

And welcome to the 21st century. Tibet is already a part of China. It has been for a long time. Also, Russia is seriously starved for cash; it sure isn't going to wage war with all of it's neighbors with a underfunded undermaintained army.

- Because the world is against it, when they would have let the inspectors do their work more, it could have led to more cooperation in the UN. (but this is an opinion, noone knows now)

Because the world is against it? Wow. That's cirtainly going to stop superpowers in their tracks. World opinion certainly stopped Serbians from raping and pillaging Bosnians.

- Because fighting a war for the wrong reason is always wrong (USA should be honest about their goals: Oil, power, supportive regime) not a democracy and the better for the people, cause these are not the real goals.

You really have to stop seeing this as a war of conquest.

- Because it is hypocrite to remove a regime like iraq for the iraqi people and let the palestinians die. If the US would help them and would try to prevent the harmful israeli politicy from doing what they do now, US would have their UN resolution. And their would be a lot less USA hate in the world. Because all the Arabian countries hate Sadam too.. they just hate USA more now...

Harmful israeli policies? I'm sure you'd march up to Tel Aviv and tell Ariel Sharon to stop killing Palestinians, after they've killed members of your family and close friends.

- Because if GWB would really care about people, he would have donated all that money in a fund to help everyone in the world, with so much money he could almost make everyone in africa/asia/middle east "rich"/have food (and they are in a situation as bad/worse as the iraqi people) and as dangerous in long term.
When people have it better then they have now, they are better fed/educated etc. that means that they are less extreme (cause extremes only occur when people are in a bad situation) and terrorist actions would be a LOT less frequent.
Terrorist organisations loose their support..etc.

If you can figure out a viable way to make sure that money does not go to:
1. Regimes where those people live under
2. Drugs
3. Rebel factions
4. Other unforseeable factors,
Then you can say that Dubya should invest his "fortunes" to about 75% of the world.

There's my two cents.

tesco samoa · #**604** March 26th, 2003, 03:44 AM

Krsqk... Thank you for the info... Thats why I read everything with a grain of salt.

Hunkpapa.... HTML Link cool... thank you.

Phaet2112... Perhaps the provision is that he cannot take his country back ever.... But I do believe that he should be punished.

Primitive... Intersting Point.

Master Belisarius · #**605** March 26th, 2003, 04:23 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Some1:

quote:
quote:

Quote:

Posted by Master Belisarius
a) Sorry guys, but we don't live in a fair world. The Justice and fairness are only a human illusion, just an ideal.
Somebody need examples? Just a few: Why I can't F$%K with Cameron Diaz?, Why I need to work to have a decent life?, Why some people doesn't have a decent job to live?, Why I'm more and more fat every day and other people is dying right now, due lack of food?

true, but can't we have ideals, cause we know what brought us in the "regular" way.... just more wars. Atleast things are somewhat better then 100 years ago, so i hope humankind learns from their faults.... (an illusion too, but you (I) should have hopes and dreams and "fight/discuss" for what i think is right) or else i have no reason to live
R.

I understand your view.
The "facts" that I wrote are things that IMHO, everybody could see in the real life.
Is not how I think the things should be. I'm not God, I'm not a Messiah but think that I understand the human nature, then Some1, can't be optimistic. I like the history and have learned that the history repeat itself once, and once again.

Suicide Junkie · #**606** March 26th, 2003, 05:12 AM

Quote:

"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity."

Interesting... the immediate things can't be helped, but the results can turn out in your favour. Even the occasional twin or triplet.

tesco samoa · #**607** March 26th, 2003, 05:15 AM

Time and Time again I think the best site for info is http://www.agonist.org/

For up to date, rumors, war reports, opinions...

I highly recommend it.

phaet2112 · #**608** March 26th, 2003, 07:18 AM

tesco: There's no way saddam is going to escape punishment, esp. with any mistreatment at all of american soldiers, or reports of soldiers with holes shot in their heads. I seriously doubt he will survive this war. My only hope is that the loss of lives on both sides is minimal, andthe ensuing blowback during occupation is also minimal. I want to be able to fly again sometime soon without feeling unnecessarily freaked out (but that's my problem, I guess...)

[ March 26, 2003, 05:19: Message edited by: phaet2112 ]

Captain Kwok · #**609** March 26th, 2003, 07:31 AM

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Originally posted by tesco samoa:
HEY KWOK>>>>> GO LEAFS GO <<<<<<

Geez, they're dropping like flies! I mean, how many injuries can a time suffer right before the playoffs? At least Owen Nolan is doing very well...just wish the whole team was healthy!

Askan Nightbringer · #**610** March 26th, 2003, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Time and Time again I think the best site for info is http://www.agonist.org/

For up to date, rumors, war reports, opinions...

I highly recommend it.

I like this site
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldnewsg...11376,,00.html
You can pick a newspaper at random at read a different slant everytime.

Askan