StarFire Mod v-Beta 2

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Vote For Wubbles The Borg In 2004!

[President_Elect_Shang]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
Vote For Wubbles The Borg In 2004!

You can't vote twice!

[narf poit chez BOOM]

i'm not. i'm campaigning!

Vote For Wubbles The Borg In 2004!

[Magnum357]

First of all, I have too say I like how this Starfire discussion is going. I'm sorry too say I will be too busy too participate in any Beta Testing (too many other projects too do) but I will work on the ship sets as I have some unique ideas that I would like too try out. Lets just say if I pull this off, the ship sets will look similar too the Table-top counters in the board game, but will also look futuristic-like the PC game "Homeworld".

But I do have two questions for you guys about this mod. First, what are you going too do about the "Missile Interdiction" rules? If I recall, if a doesn't have any Propulsion Feild Drive going (ie. All Ion Engines Destroyed) then a Nuke can cause 10X more damage then if the Feild was established. I can't see anyway this could be modded into SE4G unless someone here has an semi-solution too make this work.

Second question. One thing I liked about Starfire is the ability too customize ship configuration anyway you want. A race could have several different classes of the same type of hull and systems, but arranged differently in its DAC chart. Since SE4 doesn't have any type of DAC too speak up (basically random chance too hit all components) I propose an alternative idea in order too create a similar concept. In one other mod I was reading a while ago, some of us came up with the idea of using an "Inner/Outer" hull idea for components. Inner Hull components would be basically the components you see in SE4 where you just place them inside your ship, but Outer Hull components would be components in SE4 that have "Armor" capability and thus would be damaged before Inner Hull components take damage. So when you design your ship, each tech system could have an "Inner Hull" component and an "Outer Hull" component with Armor capability that would get damaged first. Granted, this would mean more work creating more components, but would also allow you too make more unique designs with ships, and it would give importance too Primary Beams in the mod. If I recall, Primary beams skip certain systems in SF. Having Primaries skip the "Outer Hull" componets (Armor Tech system in SE4 terms) would give the Primary Beams their SF capabilites (somewhat) in the mod.

What do you guys think? Would the "Inner/Outer" hull concept be a semi-solution that people could except?

[Fyron]

Leaky armor is great, and done well, adds a lot of strategic variety to ship designs! Keep in mind it needs a lot more hit points than most other "internals" to have a good chance of being hit first.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
i'm not. i'm campaigning!

Vote For Wubbles The Borg In 2004!

Wubbles The Borg! Wubbles The Borg! If He Couldn't Blow Bubbles He Wouldn't Be Wubbles The Borg!

[Growltigger]

[quote]Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:

Wubbles The Borg! Wubbles The Borg! If He Couldn't Blow Bubbles He Wouldn't Be Wubbles The Borg!

Hmmm, evidence of the hysteria that always seems to attend any election campaign being organised by Americans. Someone please take Narf Poit Chez Boom out, preferably with a bullet to the head.

Missile interdiction, gosh, I had forgotten about that. It would be wonderful if you could mod that into the beta, but I do suspect that it will not be possible.

Damn it though, the only time I came across this rule is when my opponent developed "Pursuit Cruisers" armed with the missiles which blow your engines. He chased one of my damaged superdreadnough divisions, blew their engines and then laughed at my amazement when his missile volleys vaped my ships. Snikkin' frakkin' rikkin' rakkin' anyway, I wiped out his fleet at the Battle of Deneb so ho hum. Wubbles, can you confirm or deny whether or not missile interdiction is possible? can you make a missile that does ten times damage if it hits a target with no engines? (it would have to exclude bases, PDCs etc).

Turning to the inner outer armour concept, I agree with you that one of the things that is slightly depressing about SEIVG is that so far as I can tell, the only effect of your components on the list is the order in which weapons fire. I like your idea, I really do, again, Wubbles, is this something you can do in the Mod?

[Dan Kochheiser]

[quote]Missile interdiction, gosh, I had forgotten about that. It would be wonderful if you could mod that into the beta, but I do suspect that it will not be possible.

Damn it though, the only time I came across this rule is when my opponent developed "Pursuit Cruisers" armed with the missiles which blow your engines. He chased one of my damaged superdreadnough divisions, blew their engines and then laughed at my amazement when his missile volleys vaped my ships. Snikkin' frakkin' rikkin' rakkin' anyway, I wiped out his fleet at the Battle of Deneb so ho hum. Wubbles, can you confirm or deny whether or not missile interdiction is possible? can you make a missile that does ten times damage if it hits a target with no engines? (it would have to exclude bases, PDCs etc).[qb][quote]

Can something like this be done?

[qb]Turning to the inner outer armour concept, I agree with you that one of the things that is slightly depressing about SEIVG is that so far as I can tell, the only effect of your components on the list is the order in which weapons fire. I like your idea, I really do, again, Wubbles, is this something you can do in the Mod?

How are sheilds being modeled?

Dan K

[President_Elect_Shang]

Well I was having a great debate with my History professor so I need to change gears, however let me address these questions.

Magnum: Sorry to hear that you can’t beta test but by all means tackle the ship sets. Send an email to the address I provided and I will send you a list of the updated ship hulls, I have the feeling that you are working off of the pre-UTM hulls. Also should you enlist any other aid let me know so that can give proper credit. If you do get aid from others than I will trust you to act as the “Lead Designer” and follow your recommendations (it will save you from having to ask me for guidance) unless it is something far out of lines with the StarFire motif, but I seriously doubt that will be the case as you are really working unrestricted already. *Motif? Define StarFire motif?*

Inner and Outer Hull: This is a fair idea but I can see too many complications with it:

First is the damage. If I where to increase the tonnage structure of a component that sits on the Outer Hull I would have to increase the damage of all weapons so that a single hit could still destroy that system, this would mean that a single hit could destroy multiple Inner Hull systems.
Second is the AI factor, I can’t say for certain but it would seem to me that the AI would have a hic-up applying the actual armor component to a ship that has components with armor traits. Let’s say that I set the AI to create ship A with two points of armor and it adds two components with the armor trait, now it has no need to add actual armor as it has just satisfied the requirements.
Third it would still be random, if you have two components with the armor trait (component A and B in that order) it can not be guaranteed that A will be damaged and destroyed before B. The sought after effect is still missing.
Fourth: I could increase the tonnage structure of Inner Hull components to make up for the lop-sided effect of the Outer Hall, yet still is the fact that anything with the armor trait is fair game for damage. In other words it would be nuts to loose your “Outer Hull” missile launcher before all of your armor is gone. Then again I could increase the tonnage structure of all armor, and then I would have to increase the damage of all weapons that hit armor, then that would be too much damage on internal scores, increase their tonnage structure… See the dilemma?

So “Leaky Armor” just won’t work in this mod and still keep a balance. Now on to the Last item, I saved it for Last on purpose. The issue of the interdiction field, I may have an idea that will work however that is something I think should be addressed “off forum”. Once I create the outline and an explanation as to the idea I will email my proposal to the addresses you have provided me. Mr. Floppy at what address should I contact you, or would you prefer a private message for ease?

Almost forgot, shields, they are modeled just as normal shields in SE4G. I could not see any difference between the two except that 3rdE shields interdict scanning and that was easy to add in. I can not say for certain that it will work and there is no way to avoid scanning a ship once combat has started. Other than this one “flaw in application” it should by all rights work just as in 3rdE, beta testing needed of course.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Hmmm, evidence of the hysteria that always seems to attend any election campaign being organised by Americans. Someone please take Narf Poit Chez Boom out, preferably with a bullet to the head.

I'm Canadian. That means i'm a North-North American.

*picks up a sign that reads 'Shoot The Tiger!' and starts marching*

[ February 04, 2004, 16:53: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]