Mod Better Independents v2.1 - Page 7

Edi · #61 November 2nd, 2008, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

That's my point, though. At difficulties above normal, 100g/province is nothing to the AI. The filling of the queues is not a problem in and of itself, it's the gold that is tied up that is the problem. At 1g per unit, the "problem" should effectually disappear.

< shrug > Maybe I'll just give it a test (when I can pry myself away from Fallout to do Dom3 SP), and let you know.....

Yes, it would then recruit nothing BUT the unrecruitable chaff and end up with no troops, which is the problem I'm talking about.

JimMorrison · #62 November 3rd, 2008, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edi

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

That's my point, though. At difficulties above normal, 100g/province is nothing to the AI. The filling of the queues is not a problem in and of itself, it's the gold that is tied up that is the problem. At 1g per unit, the "problem" should effectually disappear.

< shrug > Maybe I'll just give it a test (when I can pry myself away from Fallout to do Dom3 SP), and let you know.....

Yes, it would then recruit nothing BUT the unrecruitable chaff and end up with no troops, which is the problem I'm talking about.

What would it do with all of its extra money then? Queues are limited to 100 units, which is the mechanic I am banking on here. Once saturated, the AI should shift to more accessible units as long as it has gold, no?

Edi · #63 November 3rd, 2008, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edi

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

That's my point, though. At difficulties above normal, 100g/province is nothing to the AI. The filling of the queues is not a problem in and of itself, it's the gold that is tied up that is the problem. At 1g per unit, the "problem" should effectually disappear.

< shrug > Maybe I'll just give it a test (when I can pry myself away from Fallout to do Dom3 SP), and let you know.....

Yes, it would then recruit nothing BUT the unrecruitable chaff and end up with no troops, which is the problem I'm talking about.

What would it do with all of its extra money then? Queues are limited to 100 units, which is the mechanic I am banking on here. Once saturated, the AI should shift to more accessible units as long as it has gold, no?

Read the damned mod file before making pronouncements. There are disabled chaff and recruitable units mixed in the poptypes, which means that when it gets a choice, it will go for the cheaper but unproducable unit over the normally priced, unmodified unit if gold is weighted too much. If you're so curious about it, then run a test on it yourself and tell me the results.

Bottom line: I am NOT interested in making your suggested alterations. The reason for that is that the mod as it currently stands works well enough. So I'm not going to waste any more time on it.

JimMorrison · #64 November 4th, 2008, 11:32 AM

Woah, easy on the blood pressure there, Edi. <3

I did state a few posts back that I'd probably just get in there and try it myself, and let you know.

But you kept discussing it. :P

I haven't played that much with BI, but from what I saw, it seemed like there weren't entirely that many pop-types that had disabled units mixed with un-modded units. I just thought (from what I saw) that the problem for the AI was that it filled the queue with the cheap units anyways, which then dumped 1000+ gold per province that it did so in, which then directly impacted their ability to field large forces at all.

Maybe I haven't seen enough to judge clearly, but all I know is that personally (I love Enslave Mind), I don't find the Full/Gold versions acceptable, so I was just brainstorming on what could be done with the Resource version to avoid the problems that I and others had seen.

But again, you don't need to worry about it, when I get the time to do so, I will experiment a bit more with the current version, and then some with a modified version, and I will let you know how they compare in performance.

Xietor · #65 November 19th, 2008, 07:20 PM

I am playing a sp game, and forgive me for not reading the entire thread. It looks great so far, but I am going to post any suggestions I have as I run across them.

Lizard warriors can be a good unit at times, due to their above average mr, morale, strength, low resource cost and 2 attacks.

They are good against Ryleh because they are fast, have good mr, and kill stuff quickly when they reach them. Good to tear down walls because they are str 11 and you can get tons of them quickly.

However, they are not good in the front lines charging into missile fire-and that may be how the AI uses them. And that may be why they are disabled. It does handicap the player to not to be able to use them, but that does make for a better challenge.

But it is a great idea on improving sp, and i am looking forward to seeing how the game progresses. Thanks Edi.

SlipperyJim · #66 November 21st, 2008, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

I haven't played that much with BI, but from what I saw, it seemed like there weren't entirely that many pop-types that had disabled units mixed with un-modded units. I just thought (from what I saw) that the problem for the AI was that it filled the queue with the cheap units anyways, which then dumped 1000+ gold per province that it did so in, which then directly impacted their ability to field large forces at all.

I've played several SP games with the Resource-Only version of Better Independents, and I simply don't see the problem you're describing. The Mighty AIs all fill their armies with national troops and the "decent" independents, and they still seem to field massive armies. It seems to work exactly as advertised.

But feel free to run your own tests. Too much data can't hurt.

Foodstamp · #67 November 21st, 2008, 12:14 PM

I ran into the same Problem Jim did in the past using this mod. When units are modded to being resource heavy, the AI still tries to make them.

This creates a situation where when the AI builds a new fortress, he fills it up with units he will never be able to create. In the end, he can only build units from his capital.

Overtime I found the AI easier to play against using the different variations of this mod because the AI force was so limited. True it fields national troops, but not a lot of them and exclusively from the capital once it fills up satelite fortresses with independents it cannot produce.

iceboy · #68 November 24th, 2008, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foodstamp

I ran into the same Problem Jim did in the past using this mod. When units are modded to being resource heavy, the AI still tries to make them.

This creates a situation where when the AI builds a new fortress, he fills it up with units he will never be able to create. In the end, he can only build units from his capital.

Overtime I found the AI easier to play against using the different variations of this mod because the AI force was so limited. True it fields national troops, but not a lot of them and exclusively from the capital once it fills up satelite fortresses with independents it cannot produce.

Would this be corrected by using only the increased gold version of this mod?

SlipperyJim · #69 November 25th, 2008, 08:59 AM

Yes, the Gold-only version of the mod would fix that problem. However, the Gold-only version can lead to the earlier problem, in which using Charm (or whatever) to steal units can cripple you with upkeep.

Honestly, I have not seen any problems with the Resource-only version of Better Independents. I wonder what the difference between my games and these other games could be?

iceboy · #70 December 1st, 2008, 03:46 PM

Well darn it seems that the gold version bankrupts the AI and the resource version clogs up the AI build que with units it cannot produce. Im assuming the combined version does both? Hmmm this sounds like this mod hinders the AI more than it helps!

I wonder if there is a way to fix any of this?