SC and Thug Diversity Project

[llamabeast]

Yeah sorry, I was thinking of the clockwork assassin, not the aether spawn. AN for the aether spawn would be fine. Might be best to set it to #dt_cap (max one damage) though, otherwise the DRN can make even damage 0 AN attacks quite vicious.

[Aezeal]

Hmm I gave the souls in my shiar mod all AN low damage attacks too.. that seemed thematic..aetherspawns woudl be similar.. but imho except the most magical weapons the best a "solid" attack should be is AP. high strenght, high damage and AP will have about the same effect though. Strenght 15+ for a construct wouldn't bother me, nor would damage 5 on it's blades.. combined with AP that will put dents in most SC if there are a lot of attacks raining down on them.. and I can imagine some sort of construct with 6 flailing blades easily.. if he's really fast he could even make each blade strike 2x (I must say I find that always hard to put into creatures.. just fast attacking --> you can only really do it with eitehr giving it 2 of the same attacks.. but that would look like it's using 2 swords, or giving the weapon 2 attacks.. which means you need to create a new weapon and can't use an ordinary weapon. or giving ti onebattlespell quickness but that would make it all magical (and I still don't know if it works on troops or only commanders.)

actually I think the aetherspawn spell would very well suit me for dom 3K (they could easily move through space too) since it has quite a lot of high prot SC chassis and this would be a nice way to even the field if needed. I'm thinking a bit higher cost though if it summons multiples.

Does anyone know of an existing sprite (smallish) that would be fitting?

[Panpiper]

Originally Posted by Aezeal

I like the Aether spawn too, resemble my idea but that stealth idea is fun. Though I doubt they would be a real deterrent for a raiding force that existed of more than a single SC or a few mages.

They would be imbalancing if they were a deterrent for a serious force. The idea is to make one's opponent just a little less caviler about easily romping through one's 'undefended' territory with solitary commanders. If they want to raid, fine, but they should have to work for it. And worry about it. ;-)

Description:
The souls of those who have died filled with anger often do not pass to the afterlife, but are rather trapped in the akashic plane. A gifted mage can harness these spirits and give them a quasi existence in the physical world. Their hatred remains unabated and can be felt by those near to them; a painful, deadly hate.

Originally Posted by Aezeal

actually I think the aetherspawn spell would very well suit me for dom 3K (they could easily move through space too) since it has quite a lot of high prot SC chassis and this would be a nice way to even the field if needed. I'm thinking a bit higher cost though if it summons multiples.

Does anyone know of an existing sprite (smallish) that would be fitting?

To minimize the need for micromanagement (having to equip multiple mages with gems regularly) it would be nice to keep the spell to a single gem. The idea is that a player would have to invest in dedicating multiple mages over time to amass adequate numbers. This is meant as a balancing feature 'in addition to' the gem cost. Increasing the gem cost in order to summon larger numbers would have the effect of both increasing micromanagement (manually adding gems) as well as reduce the number of mages that need to be dedicated to production. For balance, reduce the numbers summoned, don't increase the gem cost.

For the sprites, just have a shadow on the ground.

[JimMorrison]

Okay, my own concept for this Clockwork Assassin is rapidly moving out of the realms of this mod, and into the next potential mod.

I don't know, I haven't used Edi's DB, maybe with the number of sacred mages in the game, a summon that required E4/H1 would be available to enough nations to justify it. Anyways, I would give it 2 Holy Scourge as built in weapons. So there, haters.


I'm growing fond of this Aether Spawn spell as well. Would it be possible to give their commander the unique ability to cast Gateway for free? Give him a small Magic Leadership number, and no normal/undead leadership, and that should limit abusability of the spell. They wouldn't be insanely mobile, but would be able to jump to sieged labs before reinforcements arrive, for a nasty surprise.

Or even better perhaps, make the summon just give you 1 guy, and he has the Teleport ability. In combat, he automatically generates "Aether Tendrils", which are size 1 units with the small AN attack.

I like the idea of weakish units with autosummons in combat. I'm not married to one yet, but there's got to be something here that it would work beautifully for - could be this guy.

[Aezeal]

you want things that can't be done. You either make a gateway spell for free and give ti too all nations or restrict it to 3.. can't give ti to a single mage.

Summoning units can be done, summoning in combat can only be done with regular spells not with self made spells.

I don't see why the better suggestions for the clockwork assasin would be moving it out of your general mod idea.

#newweapon "razorsharp blade"
#dmg 5
#armorpiercing
#att 2
#def 1
#rng 3
#nratt 2
#end

#newmonster "clockwork assassin"
#descr "It slices it dices it's fast and it's sharp, hoburg's nr 1 kitchenappliances factory now presents the clockwork assassin. Order one now and get this stainless steel knive-set for free."
#spr as needed.
#hp 25
#size 3
#prot 20
#mr 15
#mor 15
#att 15
#def 15
#mapmove 2
#ap 25
#blind
#weapon "razorsharp blade"
#weapon "razorsharp blade"
#weapon "razorsharp blade"
#weapon "razorsharp blade"
#inanimate
#fireres 50
#coldres 50
#shockres 75
#magicbeing
#noleader
#nomagicleader
#noundeadleader
#slots for 4 arms and whatever.
#end

perfectly suited as a SC

[Wrana]

To Aezeal:
Mountain That Walks was a real-life guy: a particularly large and shrewd elephant who managed to kill quite a number of hunters. Locals attributed various mystical abilties to him. What is known for sure is that he both tracked hunters and made regular ambushes, military-style.
More on mystically powerful animals: Vietnamese had an idea of a maneater tiger getting an ability to summon spirits of his victims and using such shamanic powers to lure more victims... Blood/Nature summon?

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by Aezeal

I don't see why the better suggestions for the clockwork assasin would be moving it out of your general mod idea.

They are only "better" because you prefer them. :P I AM looking for suggestions and advice, and I do want this to be something people will use and be happy with, but I do have to make the final design decisions on whatever it is that I put together.

There are multiple reasons that it could push it out of the realm of what I have imagined for the mod - because the specific goal of the mod is "to introduce summons of comparable power, availability and cost to the existing Bane Lord and Elemental Royalty".

This means all summons should be single path. This also says certain things about the roles that these summons will be suitable for. I can only reiterate - this isn't just a "we need more summons" mod, it's a mod to increase the competitive nature of large games where there are not enough Unique summons (and items) to go around to all of the stronger players.

For this reason, my own imagining of this "Clockwork Assassin", was as a readily available (who wants to be without Earth in the late game?) Tartarian killer. He's not a 1-hit-wonder, he's not an instant trump card to a pristine Tart, but he is something designed to be better at fighting them than most other things.


As far as the Aether guy goes, I am not sure I wanted him to have S3 on his own. I just wasn't sure if a unit could be given an effect like an Item Spell that casts a ritual for free. As I said before, this will be my first mod, and while the size of it is a bit daunting, I had already intended to keep the core concepts fairly basic, so I wouldn't have to range off into the realms of "new, and previously unimagined taste sensations". I would love to do some really daring and interesting summons, but I can't seem to say this enough - that sort of thing will likely have to wait for a different mod. I'm glad that you want to help make this mod cool, I just worry that you are trying to make it be the mod that you wanted, and not the mod that I offered to make. <3

[llamabeast]

Just give the aether dude and his troops flying, and if you want mapmove 4 or 5. Then they're super mobile and you have no modding problems.

[Mithras]

Thief of fire? Fire summon that autocasts darkness (make him see in the dark, give him a terrible precision rating, to stop some of your more obvious fire evocations), has awe and a fire weapon? Giant (Titan)sized (modify the smith god or the cyclops art)... basically an army killer, not that fire needs more of those really. Would need specific counters, but the idea of a giant that autocasts darkness and has some obvious ways to deal with undead apeals to me.

"In the days when the All-god (I can't be bothered to attempt spelling the other version , Pankrater?) controlled the flame many heroes attempted to steal this source of power. All were foiled and many were put to death, but the most powerful were imprisoned within the very source of fire itself. Furthermore they were cursed, even when trapped within the source of all fire they were surrounded by darkeness. A firemage must use a great amount of magic to free these titans from their prisons but the very fact that they have survived millenia of eternal heat and darkness is a testemant to their physical and mental might" Hmm sounds more like a pretender chassis, it will probably have to be toned down a little to see use."

Hey I like spewing forth half formed ideas... I really should learn to mod

[llamabeast]

Sounds good, but autocasting darkness is really uber!