Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Originally posted by Atrocities:
You can never know what they can ban until they ban it.

Look at what prohobition did to the economy. Many believe that it lead to the colaps of the US economy back in the day as it put so many people out of work at one time and lead to economic stress that ultimately brought down the stock market and ignited the great depression.

Serious question here - Then, what's this dustbowl thing I've been hearing about?

[General Woundwort]

Permit me to toss in a quotation from Heinlein's Starship Troopers on the topic of corporal punishment...

"Mr. Dubois," a girl blurted out, "but why? Why didn't they spank little kids when they needed it and use a good dose of the strap on any older ones who deserved it -- the sort of lesson they wouldn't forget! I mean ones who did things really bad. Why not?"

"I don't know," he had answered grimly, "except that the time-tested method of instilling social virtue and respect for law in the minds of the young did not appeal to a pre-scientific pseudo-professional class who called themselves 'social workers' or sometimes 'child psychologists.' It was too simple for them, apparently, since anybody could do it, using only the patience and firmness needed in training a puppy. I have sometimes wondered if they cherished a vested interest in disorder -- but that is unlikely; adults almost always act from conscious 'highest motives' no matter what their behavior."

"But -- good heavens!" the girl answered. "I didn't like being spanked any more than any kid does, but when I needed it, my mama delivered. The only time I ever got a switching in school I got another one when I got home -- and that was years and years ago. I don't ever expect to be hauled up in front of a judge and sentenced to a flogging; you behave yourself and such things don't happen. I don't see anything wrong with our system; it's a lot better than not being able to walk outdoors for fear of your life -- why that's horrible!"

"I agree. Young lady, the tragic wrongness of what those well-meaning people did, contrasted with what they thought they were doing, goes very deep. They had no scientifc theory of morals. They did have a theory of morals and they tried to live by it (I should not have sneered at their motives), but their theory was wrong -- half of it fuzzy-headed wishful thinking, half of it rationalized charlatanry. The more earnest they were, the farther it led them astray."...

Mr. Dubois then turned to me. "I told you that 'juveline delinquent' is a contriction in terms. 'Delinquent' means 'failing in duty.' But duty is an adult virtue -- indeed a juvenile becomes an adult when, and only when, he acquires a knowledge of duty and embraces it as dearer than the self-love he was born with. There never was, there cannot be, a 'juvenile delinquent.' But for every juvenile criminal there are always one or more adult delinquents -- people of mature years who either do not know their duty, or who, knowing it, fail.

"And that was the soft spot which destroyed what was in many ways an admirable culture. The junior hoodlums who roamed their streets were symptoms of a greater sickness; their citizens (all of them counted as such) glorified their mythology of 'rights' ... and lost track of their duties. No nation, so constituted, can endure."

EDIT - the full quotation of the passage can be found Online here - http://www.magma.ca/~yeti/troopers.html

I don't agree with everything Heinlein says here, but his basic analysis of our situation is keen - especially when you consider he wrote it in the 1950's...

[ July 10, 2004, 12:09: Message edited by: General Woundwort ]

[Beck]

Serious question here - Then, what's this dustbowl thing I've been hearing about?

Midwest, USA. The open prairie was being farmed by homesteaders. The breaking of the sod to make it suitable for farming also meant that the protection the sod gave from air-borne soil erosion was also lost. This isn't significant when the moisure content of the soil is high enough which was the case for a number of years. The early thirties saw a drought hit the region and the moisture content wasn't there to hold the soil. The great winds that come down from the Rockies as storm fronts move east would sweep down farmers' fields lifting huge amounts of topsoil into large dust storms. The dust would penetrate into everything. Many of the storms would Last for days coating everything with a fine layer of dust. The erosion that occurred was made worst by the popular farming method of the time of plowing in long continuous furrows. With nothing to stop it, the wind would run down the furrows stripping the field bare of its topsoil. Many farms were destroyed by the lack of rain and lost of topsoil. This lead to a great exodus of many of the affected people to California along US Route 66 which is why this road became know as the mother road (so named by John Steinbeck in the book, The Grapes of Wrath, the name stuck).

[Wardad]

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
No extreme is ever a good idea. Anything can be carried too far. Any type of training, teaching, raising of any creature or human; is bound to fail its goal if it uses only punishment or uses only praise.

definitly... no one trick pony will work.

actually the Bible (hey, I can't belive I'm quoting it) advises ENCOURAGEMENT, as a life style. The Rod is used for the rare but expediantly needed correction (ex. do not throw toys at your brother,...after a warning...).

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Originally posted by Beck:

quote:

---

Serious question here - Then, what's this dustbowl thing I've been hearing about?

Midwest, USA. The open prairie was being farmed by homesteaders. The breaking of the sod to make it suitable for farming also meant that the protection the sod gave from air-borne soil erosion was also lost. This isn't significant when the moisure content of the soil is high enough which was the case for a number of years. The early thirties saw a drought hit the region and the moisture content wasn't there to hold the soil. The great winds that come down from the Rockies as storm fronts move east would sweep down farmers' fields lifting huge amounts of topsoil into large dust storms. The dust would penetrate into everything. Many of the storms would Last for days coating everything with a fine layer of dust. The erosion that occurred was made worst by the popular farming method of the time of plowing in long continuous furrows. With nothing to stop it, the wind would run down the furrows stripping the field bare of its topsoil. Many farms were destroyed by the lack of rain and lost of topsoil. This lead to a great exodus of many of the affected people to California along US Route 66 which is why this road became know as the mother road (so named by John Steinbeck in the book, The Grapes of Wrath, the name stuck).

---

Thanks.

[tesco samoa]

Hey AT... why are you not up in arms over this

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5411741/site/newsweek/

American counterterrorism officials, citing what they call "alarming" intelligence about a possible Qaeda strike inside the United States this fall, are reviewing a proposal that could allow for the postponement of the November presidential election in the event of such an attack, NEWSWEEK has learned.

Just remember your country held an election during a civil war and some elections in 1814 with England wondering around a few states....


I think that if this ever happened.. Canada should switch the grades on their traintracks....

[AMF]

I love the Last line of the article:

" "We are reviewing the issue to determine what steps need to be taken to secure a GOP win in the election," says Brian Roehrkasse, a Homeland spokesman."

Just kidding. I added the "a GOP win" part...

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Hey AT... why are you not up in arms over this

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5411741/site/newsweek/

American counterterrorism officials, citing what they call "alarming" intelligence about a possible Qaeda strike inside the United States this fall, are reviewing a proposal that could allow for the postponement of the November presidential election in the event of such an attack, NEWSWEEK has learned.

Just remember your country held an election during a civil war and some elections in 1814 with England wondering around a few states....


I think that if this ever happened.. Canada should switch the grades on their traintracks....

[primitive]

Funny, or

[LordOffender]

Don't take this the wrong way, and I quote:

"Lets all hope that Kerry and his new lap dog don't win. God only knows how bad things will be after those two fence walking, freedom stealing, right taking, hug the tree, park the car, tax everything, uber left wing communistic demon slave of Satan get into office."

ROFLMAO..... Oh wait, he is telling the truth!

And Primitive, Clinton had his scape goats as well. We all remember operations: “Get Clinton Off The Front Page I, II, III, IV, and so on.”

I shudder to think how horrible it will be if Kerry and whatever his name is, get into office. IT would be worse than Dan Quale winning.

[Will]

When I saw that proposal, I was reminded again of some similarities I saw between the current US government and B5... appeals to patriotism as unconditional love of government rather than of country, fear of other cultures ("freedom fries", anyone?), new organizations created for the security of the country ("Nightwatch" -> "Homeland Security" and/or "TSA"), isolation from previous allies, increased military operations...

And now, a proposal for using a relatively small disturbance to enact what is in effect martial law, and "delaying" the election. If this gets any farther than the proposal that it is now, I start applying for citizenship elsewhere, because this country will not be mine any longer.