[OT] Another heated discussion about the Iraq siutation, war and politics. - Page 72

Crazy_Dog · #**711** March 30th, 2003, 03:14 PM

Several links for the war in the web.....

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/...653844793.html

Roanon · #**712** March 30th, 2003, 03:41 PM

Maybe 80% of the Iraqi people hate Saddam the dictator but 100% hate foreign invaders destroying their country. I'm surprised that this simple truth hasn't been realised by the attackers.

geoschmo · #**713** March 30th, 2003, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roanon:
Maybe 80% of the Iraqi people hate Saddam the dictator but 100% hate foreign invaders destroying their country. I'm surprised that this simple truth hasn't been realised by the attackers.

Right. And not only that 80% of the people don't hate Saddam. They love him. That's why 100% of the Iraqi people voted for him in the Last election.

Your "simple truth" is nothing but made up numbers that you pulled out of the air. You can't support it with anything. The only people in Iraq that support Saddam are part of the problem. They are part of the regime oppressing and suppressing the majority.

The soldiers fighting against the coalition aren't fighting "for Iraqi sovereingty". They are either part of the regime or they are forced to fight by the regime under penalty of death. They are poor bastards caught in the crossfire. I feel sorry for them.

Geoschmo

primitive · #**714** March 30th, 2003, 06:49 PM

Geo:
Roanons numbers may be made up, but there are some valuable truths there that the US should take notice off (and they should have known this before the war, the warnings was there).

Basically the US have F... up big time.
They gambled that the Iraqi people would rise up against Saddam and do the job for them. It is now clear that its not gonna happen (Maybe in the South, but not in Bagdad). There may be many reasons for this; fear may be one, but not the only. The truth is that most of the people (of central Iraq) would prefer Saddam over USA any day.

That leaves 3 possible solutions for the war.
1: GWB packs up and goes home. That's not gonna happen.
2: US troops will have to storm Bagdad. Seems like thats gonna take a while, and cost many American (and even more Iraqi) lives, and damage US international relations even more.
3: Some Iraqi general takes over from Saddam and negotiates a peace. Then we are back where we started, just with a new dictator in Bagdad. Only time will tell if he will be better or worse than the old one.

geoschmo · #**715** March 30th, 2003, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by primitive:
The truth is that most of the people (of central Iraq) would prefer Saddam over USA any day.

The people of Iraq don't have to make a choice between Saddam and the USA. The USA isn't there to rule them, just to get rid of Saddam so they can rule themselves. There will be much resistance from those that are part of the current power structure, but that is only because they know that once the regime is gone they are going to be on the wrong end of rope held by the now liberated and very pissed off populace.

In 91' there was a lot of celebration among the Iraqi people because they thought we were coming to free them. They weren't complaining about an invading army. And then when we pulled out and Bush Sr. told them to revolt they did. Unfortunatly we screwed them again and cost them a lot of blood. Any hesitance on their part now is completely understandable. They are worried we might pull out again. They are waiting to be sure that the regime is done before they stick out their necks.

I can't blame them a bit. But let's not pretend it's anything but what it is. Fear. Not fear that the US/UK is coming, but that they will leave before the job is done.

Geoschmo

primitive · #**716** March 30th, 2003, 09:54 PM

Geo, just a small question:
Is this your personal opinion, or is this the general opinion promoted by the news in the US ?
I only ask because it is so different from the news I get in Norway (and from BBC).

geoschmo · #**717** March 30th, 2003, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by primitive:
Geo, just a small question:
Is this your personal opinion, or is this the general opinion promoted by the news in the US ?
I only ask because it is so different from the news I get in Norway (and from BBC).

I am not sure what you are asking me. Which point? Or do you mean the whole thing?

Of course I can only give you my personal opinion, the same as anybody here, yourself included. The US press is not of a single mind about the war anymore then the population of our country, or any other country for that matter. All one can do, and what I try to do, is get as much information as I can from as many sources as I can and formulate an opinion of my own.

I read the BBC, I read CNN and several other US news organistions, I read the arabnews website out of Saudi Arabia, and the Haretz news daily out of Isreal. I even try to read the Al Jazeera website, although since the inception of their english Version web page it's been tough to get on there because of the constant DOS attacks of a bunch of idiots with more technical skills then common sense.

And I try to read most of the links people put in their comments here. And I have been reading a lot of the blogs that have gotten so much attention lately. Although most of those are just opinions of people that have no more direct knowledge of the events then myself.

I don't believe everything I read from any of them. But all the little pieces go together to form the view that I have.

Geoschmo

geoschmo · #**718** March 30th, 2003, 11:27 PM

Here's a good example of why the people in Iraq fight us and how much they "love" Sadaam.

http://www.arabnews.com/Article.asp?ID=24481

Is it all true? I don't know of course, but is has the ring of truth to it.

Geoschmo

Master Belisarius · #**719** March 30th, 2003, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Here's a good example of why the people in Iraq fight us and how much they "love" Sadaam.

http://www.arabnews.com/Article.asp?ID=24481

Is it all true? I don't know of course, but is has the ring of truth to it.

Geoschmo

But... after this link, check this one: http://www.arabnews.com/Article.asp?ID=24469

geoschmo · #**720** March 31st, 2003, 12:04 AM

MB, that's a thought provoking article as well. It's not directly related to the disccussion Primitive and I were having as we were discussiong whether the average Iraqi supports the invasion, not whether those in teh neiboring countries do. But it's thought provoking nonetheless.

Noone has to convince me that the US policies in the past have been, to be kind, inconsistant. Our support for Isreal and the lack of pressure on them to resolve the Palestinian issue has been unconcionable.

Maybe we have learned something, or maybe the war with Iraq is just another example of that. If that's the case then all our effort in removing the threat of Saddam will as the saying goes just be sowing to the wind. I hope that is not the case. But for me the fear of repurcussions of action started and not finished is no greater than no action at all.

Geoschmo

[ March 30, 2003, 22:12: Message edited by: geoschmo ]