[OT] Another heated discussion about the Iraq siutation, war and politics.

[Alpha Kodiak]

Originally posted by Aloofi:
Any news about Afghanistan?
I've heard things are not going well there....

I found this story:

Washington Times

This brings up an interesting question. Regardless of how we got where we are, what should we do now in Afghanistan. Increased military presence? Increased financial aid? Leave them alone and see what happens? What would you do if you were suddenly given the authority to decide what to do in Afghanistan?

[Master Belisarius]

Originally posted by General Woundwort:

quote:

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Originally posted by rextorres:
While doing my taxes I just realized that based on the number of tax payers in this country we've each - on avg. - just paid around $800 of our hard earned money to blow up Iraq. We could have given every man, woman, and child of Iraq $4500. Kind of wacky if you ask me. This is based on $100B price tag for this adventure.

It's been tried before. It was called the "Oil for Food" program. The only ones who saw any of the money were Saddam and his "praetorians" (because they controlled the south), and the Kurds (because their distribution program wasn't controlled by Saddam).

So, you are not convinced that this war was a good return on the investment?

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I'm sure this war will return the investment to both sides: at the end, Iraq have enough resources to pay any debt with US, and also, the people in USA will sleep more safe because the Saddam's weapons never will be a menace again.
In the other hand, the people of Iraq will have great returns too: what is some blood and oil, compared to receive the freedom?

[Master Belisarius]

Originally posted by Alpha Kodiak:

quote:

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Originally posted by Aloofi:
Any news about Afghanistan?
I've heard things are not going well there....

I found this story:

Washington Times

This brings up an interesting question. Regardless of how we got where we are, what should we do now in Afghanistan. Increased military presence? Increased financial aid? Leave them alone and see what happens? What would you do if you were suddenly given the authority to decide what to do in Afghanistan?

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A very interesting article. And your questions are not easy to answer, I think...

[jimbob]

If it had been my money I would have invested it in improving gas mileage - or how about a middle class tax cut - I could give you a laundry list. Or better yet I would pay off North Korea.

-bold added

Yes, becuase as we all know, paying off agressive dictators from financially struggling countries is always a good plan... it never results in them taking another mile (please note sarcasm )

...what should we do now in Afghanistan. Increased military presence? Increased financial aid? Leave them alone and see what happens? What would you do if you were suddenly given the authority to decide what to do in Afghanistan?

Well I didn't have time to read the article attached, but I think the world (perhaps just the liberator alliance) has a significant obligation to pour some serious cash into Afghanistan. More to the point from most Western World standpoints, it would be incredibly wise to pour significant amounts (ie. dumptrucks of ) cash into Afghanistan - otherwise you just end up with dirt poor people with nothing to lose who will open the doors to another wealthy Bin Laden . Wouldn't it be better by far to create a county that is far wealthier that won't want to risk their well being? Wouldn't it be better for the world to see and acknowledge that the Western world has been benevolent and rebuilt an aggressor (a la Germany and Japan post-WWII).

There should be no half-measures here, now is the time to do great and wonderful things for the "enemy" to heap up the coals on the head of those who would claim America and the West are simply the Great Satan! It's only too bad that this wasn't done before going in to get Sadam, as it would have sent a message to all the currently insensed Muslim nations that the West was good to their word of wanting to build up the people, but remove the dictator. Unfortunately I don't think that the West has really had a very good track record lately (see support of Russia post USSR, see support level of Haiti post turnoil, see evidence of rebuilding of Afghanistan: or lack therein!)

unfortunately, I've only got 2 cents,
and that was them

[ April 08, 2003, 23:36: Message edited by: jimbob ]

[TerranC]

Originally posted by rextorres:
If it had been my money I would have invested it in improving gas mileage - or how about a middle class tax cut - I could give you a laundry list. Or better yet I would pay off North Korea.

Rex, I'd rather wish that the US did declare war on North Korea, Oblierate the peninsula, and destroy east asian diplomacy than to pay them off, as that would accomplish the same thing I just listed above, except with the fact that it will cost America more with a payoff.

[tesco samoa]

To bracket Iraq and Israel in the way that Robin Cook did is to suggest that there is a moral equivalence between a murderer and someone who is having difficulty with marriage guidance counselling.

Ummm yea... Ok.... The guy is a member of a right of centre think tank that is called the Policy Exchange

Good writter though. Always makes you question what you thinking. And what he is writting.

[tesco samoa]

u know i think that the Iraqi army is staying back for the reason that when this new 'democracy' comes they can take part in their 'slice'.

So far the price of this 'democracy' is a few thousand civilans dead, wounded or missing.

That is a fact.

Herr Runsfield has mentioned that Sryia is next... CNN, FOX and those other Pre-school news sites will begin to gear up the average Joe on why their evil,,,, meanwhile The British Gov't fearful of being removed from the EU and all their work with Syria start to question this path their forced to follow.

North Korea just watches as dipolomcy is the answer there....

GodDamn those Chicken Hawks. This is going to get much worse than the cold war. And 6 million people were killed in the cold war.

[rextorres]

Originally posted by Alpha Kodiak:

quote:

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Originally posted by Aloofi:
Any news about Afghanistan?
I've heard things are not going well there....

I found this story:

Washington Times

This brings up an interesting question. Regardless of how we got where we are, what should we do now in Afghanistan. Increased military presence? Increased financial aid? Leave them alone and see what happens? What would you do if you were suddenly given the authority to decide what to do in Afghanistan?

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The scary thing about the article is that the Washington Times is a conservative paper. If they are publishing THIS imagine how bad it really is.

[Alpha Kodiak]

Originally posted by rextorres:

quote:

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Originally posted by Alpha Kodiak:

quote:

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Originally posted by Aloofi:
Any news about Afghanistan?
I've heard things are not going well there....

I found this story:

Washington Times

This brings up an interesting question. Regardless of how we got where we are, what should we do now in Afghanistan. Increased military presence? Increased financial aid? Leave them alone and see what happens? What would you do if you were suddenly given the authority to decide what to do in Afghanistan?

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The scary thing about the article is that the Washington Times is a conservative paper. If they are publishing THIS imagine how bad it really is.

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Regardless of what you think about the particular paper, the real question is what we should do. If we left more troops there to provide better security then we would be accused of occupying the country and trying to control Afghanistan. If we pumped more money in, one group of people would be screaming about sending lots of money overseas instead of taking care of our own people, while another group would probably accuse us of trying to buy the country. If we leave them alone then we will be accused of abandoning them when they need us the most. I cannot think of any action that would not be portrayed as evil by somebody.

[Atrocities]

Someone should take all of the Posts in this thread and save them as a historical referance. Think about it, for one of the first times in history, our comments about CURRENT events can be saved and passed down for eons to come.