StarFire Mod v-Beta 2

[DemoMonkey]

"So when the normal shileds and the "drive field" ..."

Of course, first we have to mod the game to include "shileds"...

[Growltigger]

Actually, that is a good point. What happens in the Mod if Wubbles turns out to be a bit dyslexic, so that the rest of us have to build "lihgt curisers" armed with "forec bemas" and "poont defuns"?

Could drive everyone madder than badgers

[President_Elect_Shang]

Ok this Friday as a release for the Beta just is not going to happen, as I sat down Last week and decided on Feb 6 it seemed a really good date with plenty of margin for error. However those real world events can often sneak up on you and since Saturday I have been running around putting out one fire after another. So as I sit here today and look down range I think that I can safely say that Friday the 13 is a good date. HA-HA-HA, maybe I should change that now…

Demo: I got a little lost with your comment, although I appreciate the criticism I have to point that although I may have forgotten about the interdiction effect who can blame me, I have created this mod from scratch and by using the few elements that could convert over from the first Version of it. When you pointed out the interdiction effect I immediately recognized it and started to work on including it into the mod. When I lost sight as to how it could be done reasonably I asked others for help. This can be seen in my below Posts, in particular the one to Dan K pointing out that the shield effect remaining after all drives are knocked out may not be of consequence.

I really do thank you for all that you are suggesting, and also for volunteering to work on the ship sets, but you must keep in mind that if the proposed idea to the mod strays to far, no matter who thought it up (i.e. my idea about adding an engine at a lower tech level), than it won’t get added. Your point about the interdiction field is great, if Dan K is right about the shields AND drive field comment than hope is alive and it should be doable. But if he is wrong (I hope not) than what you are proposing wonders to far off cannon and I could not agree with adding it in. On the other hand there is always the vote of the beta testers that can override me.

This is lengthy so let me sum up my point, I don’t want you to feel that I am ignoring your comments or anyone else’s and I don’t want you or anyone else to feel or think that I hold “ultimate power” over this mod. I try to stick to cannon, once the beta is done and tested non-cannon features can always be added, till then non-cannon features could be added but I would need to be convinced or the majority of the beta testers would need to request it. Finally cannon features maybe missing, because I have done a lot of work so far and I am human I am bound to forget, just remind me.

The comment about the warp point is also one that I did not ignore; it just can not be done. If I add it in than for what good or reason? The AI will not be tricked into looking for it, as Fyron pointed out the path-finding AI can not be modified, and a player need not search for it, just click on the map until the left panel pops up and says (in effect) here is a warp point. So I hope you can see that I did not ignore you. It just can not be done in a way that would work. Keep in mind that I am constrained by the limits SE4G places on me.

[President_Elect_Shang]

Good thoughts MR Floppy and thank you. I also want to include the interdiction effect into the Mod. That is why I am asking for help on this one, maybe I should explain how I understand the interdiction effect as working and this may help out others to point out my error:

1) It is an “effect” not a “function” likes shields. A unit that has powered down or has no engines may raise shields but will not get the “benefit” of the interdiction effect.

2) Any unit that does not have a drive field and thus does not have the interdiction effect suffers x10 damage from any missile with a warhead of: Nuclear, Anti-Matter, Advanced Anti-Matter.

3) Some "units" get the interdiction effect due to station keeping drives.

Is this right?
3rdE Revised rulebook P#19 rule 03.11.07: “A starship which shuts down (deactivates) all of its engines has a 360 degree field of fire but loses the missile interdiction of its drive.”

So nothing about shields, thus my point (the reason my spirits got crushed) is that to mod in the Interdiction Effect we would need to (1) use a SE4G ability other than shields or (2) accept that the interdiction effect will not work as it should and push ahead (now that I have a new deadline I think it can be done) or (3) let the idea go (as it means wondering too far off cannon to accomplish), maybe not for good, but at least for now.

Edited in:
Mr Floppies I just wanted to touch on your comment about the shields and the interdiction effect. The drive field that provides the effect extends past the point of the shields. Remember that the interdiction effect is not a “shield”; all it is doing is “shorting” out the missile guidance and “fooling” it into detonating the warhead early. If shields extended past the drive field than to play the game you would first have to apply the missile damage at x10 against shields then reduce damage until the Last engine is destroyed, then increase damage back to x10.

[ February 05, 2004, 16:41: Message edited by: President Elect Shang ]

[President_Elect_Shang]

Originally posted by Growltigger:
"poont defuns"?

Hay I like to point at deez buns, they are so shapely and every one should look at deem!

[Dan Kochheiser]

Originally posted by President Elect Shang:
Darn what a shame, I had actually belt up anticipation over night thinking that you were about to introduce the problem from a new angle. What a shame, well short of any other ideas I remain with the position that the Interdiction Effect can not be replicated.

But then wait Dan K appears on the horizon, are you sure about drives AND shields? I have to call you on this one, what page and book?

I'm sure. And it's in the game since 2ndEd of the game. If you go by the latest rules, then you will need to look up the 3rdR book and look under damage rules. I don't have my book here at work so I'll get the page to you once I'm home.

Also further look at the shield description. I'll come up with all this data once I have researched the books at home.

But for a basic explination, the Shields sit outside of the DF, not inside it.


Dan K

[ February 05, 2004, 17:12: Message edited by: Dan Kochheiser ]

[President_Elect_Shang]

In the 3rdR by the "SDS" it states:

3rdE Revised rulebook P#19 rule 03.11.07: “A starship which shuts down (deactivates) all of its engines has a 360 degree field of fire but loses the missile interdiction of its drive.”

Also in 04.04 pp1 it says "Drive field interdiction is lost when the Last drive field fails." It then goes on to say that ""Shields Down" allows special weapon effects" one of which is not x5 damage from missiles. Also in the same rule (04.04) look under #1 “Weapons with warheads” you will notice here that it clearly says this effect is caused by the drive field and not the shields. It is also worth noting that the damage is x5 not x10, that was the old 2ndE Rules, if the drive field is outside the shields or vice-versa is all interesting but not the point, Mr Floppy I can not answer for sure where the heck it is, I know that you are asking for just the sake of knowledge but I don’t want us to get bogged down here.

All rules aside, guys can we do this and still accept it as a worthwhile compromise, Beta Testers should we vote?

A) Pursue the option
B) It can not be done close enough to warrant the variation from cannon.

Also keep in mind that I have HAD TO vary from cannon to get this far in the creation of the Mod, we can always shelve this until later and that is what I would like to do.

[Dan Kochheiser]

Originally posted by President Elect Shang:
In the 3rdR by the "SDS" it states:

3rdE Revised rulebook P#19 rule 03.11.07: “A starship which shuts down (deactivates) all of its engines has a 360 degree field of fire but loses the missile interdiction of its drive.”

Also in 04.04 pp1 it says "Drive field interdiction is lost when the Last drive field fails." It then goes on to say that ""Shields Down" allows special weapon effects" one of which is not x5 damage from missiles. Also in the same rule (04.04) look under #1 “Weapons with warheads” you will notice here that it clearly says this effect is caused by the drive field and not the shields. It is also worth noting that the damage is x5 not x10, that was the old 2ndE Rules, if the drive field is outside the shields or vice-versa is all interesting but not the point, Mr Floppy I can not answer for sure where the heck it is, I know that you are asking for just the sake of knowledge but I don’t want us to get bogged down here.

All rules aside, guys can we do this and still accept it as a worthwhile compromise, Beta Testers should we vote?

A) Pursue the option
B) It can not be done close enough to warrant the variation from cannon.

Also keep in mind that I have HAD TO vary from cannon to get this far in the creation of the Mod, we can always shelve this until later and that is what I would like to do.

Because I said I would do this...

The exact quote to look for in SF3rdR page 22 rule 4.04 section 1 3rd paragraph it says "If, however, a starship, BS, or SS loses it's drive field, it also loses the drive interdiction effect. Thus any missile, gun hit, or mine that inflicts non-shield damage on a unit without a drive field inflicts five times normal damage."

See the inmportance here is that the the damage has to be NON-SHIELD and the DF has to be down for the 5x damage to occur.

Dan K

[President_Elect_Shang]

Ha-Ha! I don’t think I have been this happy to be wrong in a very long time, have a beer on me Dan K you earned it!

So it can be done, all we need to do is figure out what to do about that “other” problem we have been discussing?

[President_Elect_Shang]

Darn what a shame, I had actually belt up anticipation over night thinking that you were about to introduce the problem from a new angle. What a shame, well short of any other ideas I remain with the position that the Interdiction Effect can not be replicated.

But then wait Dan K appears on the horizon, are you sure about drives AND shields? I have to call you on this one, what page and book?