Conceptual Balance Mod 1.41 - Page 9

llamabeast · #81 March 11th, 2009, 10:03 AM

Poopsi - I think so, yes. The versions labelled 1.41b, 1.41c etc are in fact confusingly by chrispedersen. 1.41 is QM's latest version.

Kuritza · #82 March 13th, 2009, 05:57 AM

So, is there any chance control will revert back to normal in CB?

Amongst other things, ape nations are simply castrated by a 0-gems, 1S Control spell; take monkey summons away from them and they are left with low-quality troops and mighty monkey PD (tm).

Kuritza · #83 March 13th, 2009, 09:34 AM

Just realized Control is now a 0-pearls, S3 spell.

Still sucks to be magic beings reliant or use golems against a free Control. Now there will be less stupid deaths amongst raiding Golems encountering a lizard Shaman, but still its not hard to get an S3 communion with just S1 mages and charm all magic being thugs and SCs on the battlefield.

Sombre · #84 March 13th, 2009, 09:50 AM

Isn't control mr negates? I would think a golem would be pretty damn hard to control

Jazzepi · #85 March 13th, 2009, 10:04 AM

If your opponent has good astral, I think magic duel is a much worse plight for you then control spam for the golems.

There's no resistance roll for duel.

Jazzepi

Amhazair · #86 March 13th, 2009, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzepi

Quote:

Originally Posted by vfb

Quote:

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

You have a point that the servant of the oracles doesn't have a lot of use as is... a d/e random might even things out.

As for bone grinding, I must admit I hadn't anticipated that being a problem. One doesn't usually have that high of death mages lying about without a script, and I would have thought the very high fatigue would discourage AI use in any case. If it's a common problem though, I could certainly change it back.

I'm fighting Executor's leftover AI Sauromatian army in turn 80 of World in Crisis, and an AI D7 witch king killed himself and his vampire army with a couple Bone Grindings (he wasn't carrying gems). He probably would have been much better off spamming Disintegrate. The AI really likes Bone Grinding if it can manage to cast it, even when it's up against an army of high-HP thugs and SCs where no-one has MR less than 18.

I can confirm this is true. I played in a game with Ermor, and I had something like 4 thousand troops on the screen, and the r'yleh player had it setup to cast the undead enslave spell. The caster who had been buffed by the communion just cast bone grinding multiple times instead :P

Jazzepi

Yikes! Do NOT bring this up, please. I'm trying mightily to banish that memory to the depths of my subconciousness.

Jazzepi · #87 March 13th, 2009, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amhazair

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzepi

Quote:

Originally Posted by vfb

I'm fighting Executor's leftover AI Sauromatian army in turn 80 of World in Crisis, and an AI D7 witch king killed himself and his vampire army with a couple Bone Grindings (he wasn't carrying gems). He probably would have been much better off spamming Disintegrate. The AI really likes Bone Grinding if it can manage to cast it, even when it's up against an army of high-HP thugs and SCs where no-one has MR less than 18.

I can confirm this is true. I played in a game with Ermor, and I had something like 4 thousand troops on the screen, and the r'yleh player had it setup to cast the undead enslave spell. The caster who had been buffed by the communion just cast bone grinding multiple times instead :P

Jazzepi

Yikes! Do NOT bring this up, please. I'm trying mightily to banish that memory to the depths of my subconciousness.

That entire game was epic fail on the part of the AI. I lost more than half a dozen battles with HUGE Ermorian armies because my wind mages thought it would be a great idea to cast arrow fend instead of mass flight the latter of which would have flown them over the castle walls in a heartbeat.

Jazzepi

Kuritza · #88 March 16th, 2009, 07:14 AM

Duel requires a pearl and is dangerous for the caster. Control does not and is not.
Furthermore, CB 1.41 doesnt exclude magic duel; it gives yet another option for dealing with magic beings.
Btw, poison golems cant be magic dueled, yet they are very much controllable.
Magic resistance fails surprisingly often in real games. In Querty, I've seen Devils fail MR 25 on the second check or so, twice in a row. So when you have a whole communion of lizard shamans spamming Control, there's a very, very fat chance all your magic beings within melee range will happily desert. Good luck fighting with markatas without supporting thugs.

Sombre · #89 March 16th, 2009, 07:19 AM

Setting up big reverse communions of lizard shamans is a pretty big cost in and of itself. I don't know anything about this control problem in CBM though so I definitely can't disagree. It's true that mr checks can be really weird.

Kuritza · #90 March 16th, 2009, 07:49 AM

Change lizard shamans in my example to stargazers, star children and whatever cheap national S1 you like - it will get much cheaper.
I just dont understand why Control should be easier to cast than Mind control. Its not like magic beings need yet another single-target counter.

Better buff Unravelling somehow for the purpose of beating massed magic beings; right now its competly useless. Puts 'decay' effect of magic beings (they tend to have 1000+ lifespans, so good luck getting ANY effect with that) and feebleminds your own mages.