OT: Let’s all take a deep breath

[13lackGu4rd]

Originally Posted by Peter Ebbesen

I have to admit that I failed to grasp what you intended with your last post as you jumped from my house example to universal rights to Venezuela/Cuba to nations in general to the question of democracy and freedom of speech and ended up with accusing me of hypocrisy for supporting Shrapnels' right to make deals with other people regarding the use of their forums, which you seem to consider for some reason to be a restriction of the freedom of speech.

Apparently your entire point was the last two or three lines coupled with the assumption somewhat along the lines of "freely entering into a deal with somebody else that requires you, as your part of the deal, not to speak about something specific is a violation of your right to the freedom of speech" but let's be fair here; Reading your previous post, how on earth was I to know that?



EDIT: Right, Ich. Deep breath. Thank you.

seems like you still failed to understand my point. I didn't accuse you of hypocrisy for supporting Shrapnel's policy, but for turning the freedom off speech on and off whenever it suits your agenda. claiming it doesn't count in your home, on private forums over the internet or wherever else is why I made such a claim.

also, I didn't criticize any specific policy in my post, you wanted it to be like that because that's what you're fighting with all the Sombre supporters in here. however I have not presented any side, neither Sombre's supporters or yours and your followers. I merely asked that you don't hold double standards but be consistent...

nor did I speak neither for nor against the freedom of speech concept in general. I merely acknowledged that it's a concept we live by in our Western world. nor did I accuse Shrapnel or yourself of not acting according to the Western standards of the freedom of speech.

as for Shrapnel, as I clearly said in the post above, it was within their absolute right to act the way they did. whether it was also necessary or not is still debatable, and seeing all the antagonism this decision created I'd have to say in hind sight that it wasn't. as to all you people who say "Sombre was rude, irritating, bashing newbies, etc" I have to ask, where were you all this time? now that he's been banned you wake up and defend the decision, but we never heard from you all this time, whats up with that? seems like Shrapnel's decision was driven by these people who never spoke up before hands, only minor incidents in some minor threads. so now, in hind site and without all the information, as they're still hiding most of it I must say I can't support it. that's not to say it wasn't the right decision at the time, nor whether I would have acted differently or not if I was to make the decision and had all the information they had.

[Gandalf Parker]

I see your points. But I cant really say I agree with alot of that.

Surely a person can have different rules or attitudes about something in different places? I have different ideas of what should be allowable concerning nudity, cursing, drinking, smoking, brawling, noise, etc which varies for different places.

Is this just between you two? (referring to the "our western world")

As to the lack of comments, that might in itself be part of the problem. I have emails and PMs from people who felt they were being chased out. One recently chewed me out for "abandoning the forum" because when he was "ganged up on there was no gang to stand beside me". Another referred to the "elites". What you are saying is that you arent hearing much from the people still here. Possibly that is part of what is on the scale of measurement altho I suspect its yet another collection that is in the vaults of private communications..

[13lackGu4rd]

since when was the discussion about a set of rules for various things? you've also entirely missed the point Gandalf. it's about standards, or more precisely, double standards. not about rules...

and well, can you really blame me for not seeing PMs you receive(no idea why you but whatever) or PMs that somebody else receives? I'm saying that I couldn't find them speak up over the forums, where the public eye can see it... also I clearly said that I don't have access to all the information, PMs being among them, as well as the administrative forums, etc.

[Gandalf Parker]

Im sorry. I thought you associated the level of speech allowed here with that of your country.
Or inside someones house, with outside the house. You're right, must have gone by.

I have no idea why me either. Other than being in the threads that sparked the feeling of persecution I guess. For some reason I came across as the opposite of what they were complaining about. But I do remember seeing public complaints fairly often also.

[rdonj]

Hmm. I have to say, I have been on a lot of forums, and there is always a bit of an "old guard" situation, where certain forum members are very highly respected. These guys are pillars of the community. They've earned friends, rivals, and the respect and loathing of numerous others. The situation we have here is hardly any different. You have to expect this sort of thing in a forum, or indeed any community. Someone who has been around for a while is going to have friends who will stick up for them. Some random newbie who just wandered in, probably won't.

That said, this is also one of the most noob-friendly forums I've been on. I've seen posts that... well, let me just say, if I'd seen them on most other forums the person would immediately have been pulverized by the level of bashing. If a person was honestly chased away by this forum... I don't know that they can survive just about anywhere on the internet, sombre or not. I would invite these people to think back carefully. We do have a few members who have no problem being rude whenever they feel like it. But we also always have members that will come in and stick up for the new guy, or just calmly and politely answer their questions. I can't imagine it's really as bad as all that.

Then again, I've been on the internet since I was 8, so maybe I'm unreasonably inured to general crustiness.


By the way, someone earlier said that sombre doesn't play any MP games... that's not true. He does play MP, usually small games with mod nations, primarily dominated by the IRC crowd. Ever see the scruntlefut or spumbum games? Doesn't really matter, but I'm the sort that likes to point out these things

[Doo]

A bird flying free
Inspires the non-fliers
Life is never free

[13lackGu4rd]

was that supposed to be a Haiku? cause it isn't a proper Haiku if it was meant to be one

[Gandalf Parker]

Yeah impressions are misleading. I keep hearing that I dont irc, or mp, or mod.

[rdonj]

To be fair gandalf, the impression that you don't MP might come from yourself, as you have said more than once that you are much more of an SP player than mp

[Digress]

Originally Posted by rdonj

To be fair gandalf, the impression that you don't MP might come from yourself, as you have said more than once that you are much more of an SP player than mp

You forget that Gandalf uses a secret identity when in MP ..... at least when he signs up