[OT] Another heated discussion about the Iraq siutation, war and politics.

[Aloofi]

Originally posted by dogscoff:
Still not a healthy attitude imho. To only care about what goes on in your own borders is to become insular and that can only lead to feelings of superiority/ mistrust over other nations/ races which is an easy route to hatred, nazism and imperialist expansion.

Well, in this imperfect world being Nationalistic beats the hell out of being imperialistic, me thinks.
Besides, if a country is hated by everyone else, an strong nationalism is the only way to survive, plus not attacking anyone and having only a defense oriented army doctrine will assure the moral higher ground, at least in a domestic sense.

[dogscoff]

Well, in this imperfect world being Nationalistic beats the hell out of being imperialistic, me thinks.

But I'm saying that nationalism leads to imperialism. Think Hitler. Think British Empire. When you stop caring about johnny foreigner, you lose respect for him. When you have no respect for him, you might as well inade his country and take what's his...

Nationalism is on the increase here in the UK.
As the conservatives recoil further and further from Europe and anti-immigration hysteria increases, our extreme right is gaining more and more ground. It's under control for the moment, but I can see it getting a lot worse in the next few years.

Besides, if a country is hated by everyone else, an strong nationalism is the only way to survive,

But I think strong nationalism is one of the things that leads to a country being hated.

[Aloofi]

Originally posted by Mephisto:
And what do you think Nazism stands for? Nazis did care for their own borders... until they decided to bring home the Sudentendeutsch from across the border...

Not really. In the Mein Kampf Hitler already made public his intention on fighting the USSR for living space. National-Socialism was not exactly a Nationalistic movement. Probably they should have been called National-Imperialism from a political point of view, and Capitalism of State from an economical side.
Of course, many Germans saw the Nazis as a national rebirth after WW1. But in my opinion the Nazi leadership itself deceived the German people changing their Nationalism into a German Imperialism, and it was anything but socialist, even though Hitler, Goebels and Hess played into National-socialist feelings in their speeches talking against class divisions and brotherhood, when at the same time they were doing big business with the german Industrial and financial oligarchies.
And lets not get into the minority discrimination, with was an easy shot of blaming everything on the jews and other minorities to blind the German people from the Imperialist war they were cooking.
To give you just some numbers, of the 500 000 jews in Germany 100 000 fought for Germany in WW1, which mean that every male in age went to war, and 12000 were killed, making the percentage of Jews killed for Germany higher than that of the other Germans.

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[Wardad]

Nationalism is dangerous. The stronger the feeling the more dangerous it is.

In fact any grouping that focuses strong positive feelings of US, will also focus negative feelings on THEM.

[Baron Munchausen]

Originally posted by dogscoff:

Nationalism is on the increase here in the UK.
As the conservatives recoil further and further from Europe and anti-immigration hysteria increases, our extreme right is gaining more and more ground. It's under control for the moment, but I can see it getting a lot worse in the next few years.

So where do you think UK politics is heading? Towards alignment with the US in opposition to Europe? I have heard in some other forums that Blair is actually making noises about trying to push approval of the Euro now. Is this true? If so, it's got to be the most ill-timed move in UK political history. With UK having a stronger economy than any of the continental nations, AND the current levels of tension of the Iraq affair every possible factor is against him.

[Wardad]

ANOTHER CONFUSED PEACE PROTESTOR

http://www.twistedmonkey.org/view/fu...0/?sort=rating

IRONIC

[Mephisto]

Originally posted by Aloofi:
National-Socialism was not exactly a Nationalistic movement.

Oh, it was. You see it to narrow. Replace Germans with Nordic race/Herrenrasse and it all works out.
The problem with nationalism is that you put one nation above all other. And from this point on it will only go downhill...

[Fyron]

Primitive:

Fyron:
Your welcome.

Yeah, just throw out opinions that don't agree with yours... great plan...

[Baron Munchausen]

Mephisto:

You forgot to mention that people of your own nation who don't meet the right standards are just as much victims as people of other nations. How many Germans who happened to be of the wrong political affiliation, or of low intelligence, or homosexual, were also killed by the Nazis? We can see this already in the US. People who think GWB has gone too far are 'communists' or being manipulated by them, plotting to overthrow the government. People who think Ashcroft has gone too far are 'giving aid to terrorists' -- which translates to Ashcroft saying he can arrest them just for opposing him. 'Giving aid to terrorists' is an imprisonable offense. We've had waves of hysteria before, and somehow recovered, but being in the midst of one is NOT fun.

[ April 15, 2003, 19:56: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Some1:
quote:
Nationalism....
Also when i watch GWB on tv, it reminds me of Ayatollah Khomeini...(just replace Allah with God)
GWB is (also) a pure Christian Fundamentalist.

He has some faith in God, so he is a pure Christian Fundamentalist? I don't think so.

Askan:

Tesco -
I can't believe you said what you said and nobody has jumped you. I logged on today to watch the flames but everyone was mute.

Probably because it is so absurd it could be safely ignored...