How do you keep up with the AI (troop building)

[Kjeld]

Well, after another pitiful rout, the conclusion is here, I suck
Well, I hope not, but I still cannot hope to win against AIs on normal level, even using fewer AIs than normal map settings, higher independant strength by default ... Well, the only nation I have done consistently well with is Jotunheim, with a strong blood pretender : I generally have the problems I outline below, but Jotunheim province defense and blood summons and artifacts somewhat makes up for my shortcomings.

So, here's the deal : I am constantly outnumbered, litteraly drowned by hordes, and hordes of enemies. My elite units don't really matter. The AI field, bare minimum, 4 or 5 times as much troops. Of course, most is fodder, but who cares ? Of course, my few, small armies win 1 on 1, but I get back 2 provinces, I lose 4 behind, and my scout can see bigger and bigger stacks coming at me.
And that's agains 1 enemy. More often than not, it's 2 or 3 of them that come at my throat. Not even to mention wraparound maps

I have experimented with both high and low province defenses, neither solution seems to work really : with low province defense, it is just easy for the enemy to have 2 or 3 rampaging enemies armies deep inside my territory (and then it is the "guess where they'll be next turn" game), with high province defense, they can be overcome anyway, and it just adds to my problem (lack of troops ...)

So, any tips about what I shall do ? If heavy troops are not sufficient, should I stick to mass production of light troops (like the AI do ?) ? I was under the assumption that it was beneficial to produce a lot of mages (for research, site searching, combat support), but should I just forget that, crank out troops, and only get a mage when times permit ? Should I convert even more gems into gold with alchemy ? Build a supercombatant pretender ?(I suck at supercombatants. My only serious try was with a son of Niefel and Niefelheim theme. My jotun jarl and pretender were cursed by turn 3 by lizard shamans, and blind during their first encounter with marignon - blindness spell)
Or go back to easy AI (but I fear to take bad habits against not so good opposition ...) ?

Oh, by the way : I now take almost always Order 3 by default. It's the only way I can hope to have a chance.

There is a good thread in this forum about game beginnings (the first few turns). This I have no problem with, I can expand just fine. What I am really looking for is more like : It's now turn 20-40ish, there are hostile enemies at my borders, how should I spend my ressources and magic, how can I manage to keep my territorial integrity. ?

[ February 01, 2004, 14:00: Message edited by: Kjeld ]

[diamondspider]

Chances are that you aren't giving high enough priority to taking the provinces directly around you first castle ASAP and then making 2nd priority setting-up more castles and clearing around them.

You also have to place the new castles so that you block the enemy coming in and pillaging.

If you use Wizard Towers and put top priority on creating new castles and clearing the provinces adjacent to them, that will probably help.

The game SEEMS to be about what troops you take and what spell, pretender and such, but it is really much more about just grabbing land quickly and holding it: the other stuff is just support of that.

You should be taking 3-4 indy provinces per turn by about turn 15-20 (assuming default indy settings). If you aren't, you that means you are giving too low priority to land grab in my own experience.

Yes, there are other ways to win, but that is the way the AI gets so many troops and the the best way to practice.

[ February 01, 2004, 14:17: Message edited by: diamondspider ]

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Kjeld:
It's now turn 20-40ish, there are hostile enemies at my borders, how should I spend my ressources and magic, how can I manage to keep my territorial integrity. ?

First and foremost: Province Defense! I use 21 for most border provinces, 31 for key ones (good magic sites or income 50+).

The other thing that helps is to use lots of summons. Most cost zero upkeep and supplies, which frees my gold and supplies for other things (like temples for dominion push). I use the low-strength summons (Call of the Wind, Army of the Dead, etc) as garrisons, and the good ones (trolls, etc) as shock troops.

Another tactic that helps is to use commander-killing (Wind Ride, Earth Attack, etc) and mass-damage (Fires from Afar, etc) spells on those AI stacks that threaten your borders. The AI will have a hard time attacking without commanders (or with fewer of them) and the mass murder spells will thin them out a bit. Just killing 10-20 out of a stack of 100+ may be enough to make the AI reconsider attacking you for a turn, which gives you yet another chance to hit the AI again.

[Gandalf Parker]

Set the independents a couple of notches higher.
It hurts the stupid AI more than it hurts you.
A larger map might help also.

[Saber Cherry]

I think you just need to expand faster. Expand as fast as possible, early... the AI is obviously out-incoming you. Look at the score graphs - the province graph and income graph should reveal your problem.

[diamondspider]

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
I think you just need to expand faster. Expand as fast as possible, early... the AI is obviously out-incoming you. Look at the score graphs - the province graph and income graph should reveal your problem.

Exactly! Too often people give beginners tips regarding this spell or that troop when nothing is going to make any difference if the AI has 3x more provinces than you!

[ February 01, 2004, 16:44: Message edited by: diamondspider ]

[Argitoth]

Originally posted by diamondspider:

quote:

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Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
I think you just need to expand faster. Expand as fast as possible, early... the AI is obviously out-incoming you. Look at the score graphs - the province graph and income graph should reveal your problem.

Exactly! Too often people give beginners tips regarding this spell or that troop when nothing is going to make any difference if the AI has 3x more provinces than you!

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Actually I have a strategy which allows 10 C'tis mages to take out hundreds of units by themselves.

[diamondspider]

Originally posted by Argitoth:

quote:

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Originally posted by diamondspider:

quote:

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Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
I think you just need to expand faster. Expand as fast as possible, early... the AI is obviously out-incoming you. Look at the score graphs - the province graph and income graph should reveal your problem.

Exactly! Too often people give beginners tips regarding this spell or that troop when nothing is going to make any difference if the AI has 3x more provinces than you!

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Actually I have a strategy which allows 10 C'tis mages to take out hundreds of units by themselves.

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Even if 10 Fiends of Darkness swarm them and kill them before they cast?

[Kjeld]

Thanks for all the answers thus far.
Actually, I am rarely behind (or at least, that much behind ) the AIs in the # of provinces owned, or income.

However, I am starting to realize that I tend to put too many eggs in the same basket. I am often tempted to make "superstacks" of very powerful troops, but I am starting to think that more numerous armies, with a lower but decent number of elite troops/mage backing up lower quality troops might allow me to both expand faster, and control marauding enemy armies. I, however, always fear to spread my forces too thin.

Which leads to a question : how many armies and of what strength do you all feel comfortable with ?

[Raz 24]

I belive a balanced army must "ONLY" consist of the following :
2-3 Militia
1 Archer
10 Commanders
½ Drunken Driver
2 HPV emplacments
A platoon of marines and a hot dog!

I´m just tired but that maybe would work against something....