Latest patch, mods & current game

[Jon Brave]

I just know this must have been asked a thousand times before (please don't scream), but...

I've just got back from a two week holiday . I was in the middle of a 1.19 game with "most common" mods (i.e. Mod_Pack_1.01, plus required ship sets). I would like to continue my game. May I just ask:

1. Can I patch and continue, or must/should I restart? From my brief tour here it looks as though it's worth patching, even though I'm already modded?

2. Presumably patch will clobber mods, do I need to remod (newer Versions of above)? And while I'm at it, I *know* different people recommend slightly different mods; I don't want new techs, don't care about shipsets, just want the best AI, but I do find it's very unclear whose mods will clobber who else's, so in the end I decided to do Mod_Pack_1.01 *only* coz I didn't know whether other good looking ones would undo that; seems a shame, but it's all a bit messy...

3. For idiots like me who forget, why can't there be a permanent link somewhere here to latest patch/mods --- I can never remember...

[pathfinder]

1-not sure. wasn't able to myself but since it was only an AI spanking me..

2-sure thing....the MOD pak at least didn't/wasn't affected too much by the patch...though the MOD Squad has released a new update for it (v 1.6 IIRC).

[This message has been edited by pathfinder (edited 05 March 2001).]

[God Emperor]

If you just want mods that just tweak the existing game I recommend;
1) Mod Pack,
2) Sundevil's mod (tweaks politics, anger files)
3) My mod - ResearchShip_v127c (tweaks research and ship design files and gives point defence at game start in order to help the Ai in ship combat).

All of these mods are compatible. I suggest that you load them in the above order.

I also like a couple of the SystemNames mods around (eg like those produced by Tarkin and Dracus).
I have combined a number together and have done a bit of an edit on them for my own purposes. I would suggest that you do the same.

[pathfinder]

yup, that is basically what I have (GE's research, Sundevil's anger/politics, modpack v 1.6) plus Tampa_Gamer's sound files.

I also have added upgraded AI to the races sets I have d/l'd and made a couple myself. I usually use a default set of AI files and them MOD it to make it fit the AI_general file description or at least I try

[Windborne]

I tend to avoid mods other then new shipsets because I like to stick with the official game and be able to more accurately compare scores with my friends (who do the same), if we started using different mods our strategies for multiplayer would all get messed up by the quirks of our own patch system, does anyone have any idea when MM will be going over the various mods (especially system mods) and incorporating some new stuff into the game?

[KenB_Atl]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jon Brave:

3. For idiots like me who forget, why can't there be a permanent link somewhere here to latest patch/mods --- I can never remember...[/b]

---

What is the link for the mods? I would have thought they were here somewhere, but I can't find them.

[Spyder]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Windborne:
I tend to avoid mods other then new shipsets because I like to stick with the official game and be able to more accurately compare scores with my friends (who do the same), if we started using different mods our strategies for multiplayer would all get messed up by the quirks of our own patch system, does anyone have any idea when MM will be going over the various mods (especially system mods) and incorporating some new stuff into the game?

---

Windborne....most of these mods don't change the basic game. They add smarter races, different shipsets, and other things that don't alter the basic game (like changing research costs, build costs, item abilities, or, adding items to the research tree).


------------------
Spyder, Chairman of the Arachnid Consortium

[Jon Brave]

quote:

---

Originally posted by God Emperor:
If you just want mods that just tweak the existing game I recommend;
1) Mod Pack,
2) Sundevil's mod (tweaks politics, anger files)
3) My mod - ResearchShip_v127c (tweaks research and ship design files and gives point defence at game start in order to help the Ai in ship combat).

All of these mods are compatible. I suggest that you load them in the above order.

I also like a couple of the SystemNames mods around (eg like those produced by Tarkin and Dracus).
I have combined a number together and have done a bit of an edit on them for my own purposes. I would suggest that you do the same.

---

God Emperor, you're a case in point. I'm sorry, but I just don't understand. I have previously taken this ModPack1.01 thing. My understanding is that either Mephisto or Tampa_Gamer had patches in there to improve the basic AI. Then I see you touting your stuff, which looks v. interesting. But I won't do yours 'coz I think it'll overwrite at least some stuff in their ModPack (or you'll have old Versions of some files). Which could well be a shame, with all deference to you. Now I'm beginning to wonder whether they're mods only affect their races (Darloks/EA), maybe yours are the only ones improving other AI...

Look, why don't you be a hero? This is desperately complicated, whatever anyone says. *Explain* here how the common mods interact? Not sell your stuff, if you see what I mean, but just try to explain the relationship between general files/your stuff/modpack1/latest patch/what overwrites what... you know what I mean without listing everything. It would be *so* appreciated.

There are still things like this that I know I'm not the only one who doesn't get the picture. There are often questions, for example, about whether you have to pick a race explicitly at the start of a game. I want to know why I initially tried kust getting ModPack1.01 and thought it said I didn't have to have special shipsets if I couldn't be bothered, but found it wouldn't work right (missing files, .bmps etc.) till I eventually I had to go somewhere else to get the shipsets just to get it to work, and now I've doubtless got to do that again...

Sorry to go on. How about a modders-usage guide for the *non-*modders?

Aaaaahhhh, I just saw Richard Arnesen's post for modders guide which seems to me to strike a chord... Can't wait that long, though, so any answers now still appreciated


[This message has been edited by Jon Brave (edited 06 March 2001).]

[God Emperor]

John Brave, apologies if I have not been very explanatory in my Posts (I put details in the Readme file that accompanies the mod). I should probably illustrate what I have done with an example;

=========================================
Mod Pack Amonkrie Research file;
AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Physics
Tech Area Level := 1
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Energy Stream Weapons
Tech Area Level := 3
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Ship Construction
Tech Area Level := 4
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Construction
Tech Area Level := 1
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Weapon Platforms
Tech Area Level := 1
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Mines
Tech Area Level := 1
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Fighters
Tech Area Level := 1
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Smaller Weapons
Tech Area Level := 1
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Energy Stream Weapons
Tech Area Level := 5
Tech Area Min Percent := 25

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Torpedo Weapons
Tech Area Level := 8
Tech Area Min Percent := 25

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Shields
Tech Area Level := 5
Tech Area Min Percent := 25

Note the number of techs that are researched between Physics and shields. You or I, if we researched physics, would immediately research at least shields 1 or 2 to get some benefit from researching Physics.
This section of the research file is unchanged from the v.127 research file and is not something accidently introduced by the mod pack guys.

==========================================
My modified Amonkrie Research file:

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Physics
Tech Area Level := 1
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Shields
Tech Area Level := 2
Tech Area Min Percent := 25

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Energy Stream Weapons
Tech Area Level := 3
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Ship Construction
Tech Area Level := 4
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Construction
Tech Area Level := 1
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Weapon Platforms
Tech Area Level := 1
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Mines
Tech Area Level := 1
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Fighters
Tech Area Level := 1
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Smaller Weapons
Tech Area Level := 1
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Energy Stream Weapons
Tech Area Level := 5
Tech Area Min Percent := 25

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Torpedo Weapons
Tech Area Level := 8
Tech Area Min Percent := 25

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Shields
Tech Area Level := 5
Tech Area Min Percent := 25

Note that I have inserted Shields Lvl 2 immediately after Physics. I acknowledge that whether it should be Shields 1 or 2 could be debated, but Shields 2 isnt that expensive so I elected to go with it.

=========================================
This is the sort of stuff that I have concentrated on tweaking. It should be noted that the Modpack guys have made some improvements to the Research files, but, there were still a lot more things that could be improved.

I understand that Sinapus is working on tweaking the Research files (he has picked up a couple of things I missed) and I am hoping that eventually a comprehensive Research mod may be issued as part of mod pack.

All of my Posts so far have been with this eventual aim in mind. Again, I apologise if my Posts did not convey my intent adequately and sounded like grand standing instead.
Its just that the faults in the research files are so obvious when you look at them in detail, that I have been trying to make others aware that the AI is being weakened by something that can easily be fixed. I have emailed Aaron/Malfador but not recieved any response.

Regards,
God Emperor


[This message has been edited by God Emperor (edited 07 March 2001).]

[Jon Brave]

God Emperor,

Please don't feel you have to apologise! You must understand I/we are very appreciative of your efforts, however it may sound.

But your latest post is the *opposite* of what I'm looking for, it's so detailed. I'm sure its content is very good. I'm sure you're right that simple tweaks will improve the AI, which is exactly what I am looking for.

But what I don't understand --- and nor do others --- is a *simple* explanation of how/whether, say, your mods do/don't clash with other peoples', or are up-to-date with the latest patch etc. So I end up not using yours because of this. I do realise how complex all this is to explain briefly, but that's what people who want to *use* the mod, not *understand* it, need to know. If I'm going to use, say, the latest Version of the "standard" Mod Pack I've been going on about, how does yours fit in, precisely? Does the order of applying matter (well I guess that depends on whether you mod the same files). All this is so frustrating, I'll end up not patching & not remodding because of this, which is a shame. Perhaps if I read all the read.mes with a magnifying glass I'll understand, but when I've tried I get lost between different peoples' explanations... I just want a decent opponent