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December 20th, 2005, 06:21 AM
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Sergeant
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Whats left of Iraqs Military?
Ya, I know basically Iraqs military is basically nothing, but I'm curious does anyone know what is left of Iraqi armor and equipment after the occupation? I found this site which is quite interesting...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Iraq
Although these figures were before Gulf War I (I guess thats that name for it), it does show how massive Iraqs military was at one point of there history. When the occupation began, I was shocked to see so much unused armor in stock piles near Iraqi bases. It looked fairly old and not upkept well, but a lot looked still basically intact. I'm just wondering if anyone knows if even a small percentage of this is operational and useful? They keep saying someday Iraqs military is going to be needed to control its country, could any of this be used (if any is left). Or is it most likely we (and maybe others) will just sell new arms to them?
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Gryphin-
I started my first game. The Selay Consortium just hosed a colony ship, @#%Q@#R, Then accepted a Trade Treaty.
What is it about Neutrals that shoot first and ask quesitons later?
Atrocities-
Its called Gun Ship Diplomacy. <img border=0 title= alt=[Big Grin] src=biggrin.gif /]
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December 20th, 2005, 02:51 PM
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National Security Advisor
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Re: Whats left of Iraqs Military?
If that's pre-Gulf War you likely need to cut it in half, (at least) to account for everything we blew to small bits during the first and second wars, attrittion between the wars from random accidents, etc.
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Phoenix-D
I am not senile. I just talk to myself because the rest of you don't provide adequate conversation.
- Digger
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December 20th, 2005, 11:03 PM
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Sergeant
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Join Date: May 2001
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Re: Whats left of Iraqs Military?
Ya, I think those figures on that site are pre-Gulf War I but I would have to think even a small percentage (even 1 to 5%) of it must still be useful or enough to be fixed to operational status.
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Gryphin-
I started my first game. The Selay Consortium just hosed a colony ship, @#%Q@#R, Then accepted a Trade Treaty.
What is it about Neutrals that shoot first and ask quesitons later?
Atrocities-
Its called Gun Ship Diplomacy. <img border=0 title= alt=[Big Grin] src=biggrin.gif /]
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December 20th, 2005, 11:23 PM
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Shrapnel Fanatic
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Re: Whats left of Iraqs Military?
If you have an AK, are unable to read, and want to get fed well, come join the IRAQ army. Wait, if you can't read then you can't read this... crap!
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Creator of the Star Trek Mod - AST Mod - 78 Ship Sets - Conquest Mod - Atrocities Star Wars Mod - Galaxy Reborn Mod - and Subterfuge Mod.
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April 5th, 2006, 06:11 AM
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Captain
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Re: Whats left of Iraqs Military?
Apparently the huge stockpile of heavy metal bought during the eighties was extensively crippled during the war against Iraq, all of the advanced systems that could be found were systematically busted by US forces during Desert Storm, and the ongoing twelve years of embargo had a disastrous effect on the infrastrcuture, industry and economy, making the shortage of spares critical.
Some of the most advanced equipment also has a habit of being sheperded into Iran in times of crisis , as happened to several dozens of the most serviceable aircrafts in the first days of ODS. It looks like quantities of industrial equipment has followed on the same way in recent years too.
Even so, the figures on the Wiki page mentionned sound strange, but most of them may be valid for the '88-91 period or so.
For cross-reference, here is a summary of the armour assets available to the New Iraqi Army as of 2006, according to Jane's World Armies:
Code:
T-72/Asad Babl Main Battle Tank Up to 700
T-62 Main Battle Tank 300
T-54/55 Main Battle Tank 1,000
T-55 modified Main Battle Tank n/a
Type 59 Main Battle Tank n/a
PT-76 Amphibious Light Tank n/a
SU-100 Tank Destroyer n/a
AML-60 Light Armoured Car n/a
AML-90 Light Armoured Car n/a
BMP-1/2 Infantry Fighting Vehicle 1,200
BMP-2 Infantry Fighting Vehicle n/a
MT-LB Armoured Vehicle n/a
EE-9 Armoured Car n/a
ERC-90 Armoured Car n/a
Panhard M3 Armoured Car n/a
BRDM-1 Reconnaissance Vehicle n/a
BRDM-2 Reconnaissance Vehicle n/a
PSZH-IV Armoured Personnel Carrier n/a
BTR-50 Armoured Personnel Carrier n/a
BTR-60 Armoured Personnel Carrier n/a
BTR-152 Armoured Personnel Carrier n/a
EE-11 Armoured Personnel Carrier n/a
OT-62 Armoured Personnel Carrier n/a
OT-64 Armoured Personnel Carrier n/a
Walid Armoured Personnel Carrier n/a
Type 531 Armoured Personnel Carrier n/a
M-60P Armoured Personnel Carrier n/a
BMD-1 Airborne Combat Vehicle n/a
Note: About 2,200 main battle tanks and 3,000 other armoured fighting vehicles
were estimated to remain in the inventory prior to the Iraq war, although only
about 40-50 per cent of these were thought to be serviceable.
Note: Many of the tanks and armoured vehicles seized after the 2003 Iraq War
have been stored by US forces at Taji military camp north of Baghdad.
Not very helpful, I know, but that's how things appear to be for now!
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April 6th, 2006, 05:13 PM
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First Lieutenant
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Re: Whats left of Iraqs Military?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Iraqi_Army
This seems to have some more recent estimates. I'm sure actual details aren't released for security.
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April 10th, 2006, 12:44 PM
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Captain
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Re: Whats left of Iraqs Military?
More recent equipment is going to be added to this, like the whole batch of BTR-94 Guardians bought by Jordan, or original equipment left behind by the Polish contingent as they leave the country, including Mi-24 helos.
I had heard about the DoD's plans for supplying the new Iraqi army with the heaps of surplus US equipment mentionned at the end of the article, even since the last days of the war; I don't know if that was ever anything official, but it looks like the armored division-style dream has been blown away by the need for an efficient counter-insurgency force.
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April 13th, 2006, 01:04 PM
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Lieutenant Colonel
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Re: Whats left of Iraqs Military?
While not approaching the glory days before the many misadventures of the last few decades, Iraqi strength is improving. The quality of the average solider is still much in question. They have received quite a lot of equipment of late or soon to be delivered. And should be able to provide for their own defense should one of their neighbors decide to try them on for size.
Quote:
Quoted from GS.org
New Iraqi Army (NIA) Equipment
Equipment shortages have been reduced as equipment procured with U.S.-funded contracts began to flow into Iraq during mid-to-late 2004. By 2005, the Iraqi Army had 60 percent of its total authorized equipment, including more than 100 percent of AK-47 requirements. The Iraqi Security Forces Fund (ISFF), as provided for by Public Law 109-13, will further enable MNF-I to meet critical requirements.
U.S.-funded procurement had equipped infantry units primarily with former Warsaw Pact weapons and vehicles. The MOD, using its funds, had also sought U.S.-standard vehicles such as HMMWVs and M-113 armored personnel carriers. Mechanized forces were being trained using T-55 and T-72 tanks, BMP-1s and MTLBs. The ISOF was equipped with M4 carbines, M9 pistols, night-vision devices, M24 sniper systems, M240 machine guns, 12 gauge shotguns, 50-caliber machine guns, global positioning systems equipment, and surveillance equipment.
In August 2003, a number of Statements of Work (SOW) articulated the equipment, equipment training, logistics support requirements, and maintenance requirements for the New Iraqi Army (NIA) and the Iraqi National Defense Force (INDF). Detailed information was provided for the Light Infantry Battalion sets. Site Set Up and Prep of initial Battalion Sets (Including Government Acceptance Procedures) except the "A" Group (1st BN), the offeror was required to submit prices including delivery and site preparation for user operation of equipment to Kirkush Military Training Base (KMTB), Iraq (Mercator Grid Reference System 38SNC 22027 30374), approximately 70 miles west of Baghdad, and close to the Iranian border.
This meant that all delivered items would be unwrapped, unpackaged, assembled, re-assembled, and otherwise placed in operational order while all packing items related to shipment would be assembled and moved to a refuse site identified by the point of contact for the Coalition Military Assistance Training Team (CMATT) at KMTB. All CLINS except for 0002 will be priced this way. An alternative pricing arrangement was not authorized for CLINS 0003 through 0010. Delivery and site preparation for Group B (2nd BN) was to be completed by 8 November 2003 at KMTB. There was no alternative pricing proposal arrangement for the "B through I" series CLINS.
Four T-55s mothballed by the old Iraqi Army were refurbished and transported on low loaders from the old army base in al-Muqdadiyah north of Baghdad to the training base at Taji. The Iraqi army took another step forward in the security of their nation in January 2005 by mobilizing the 1st Mechanized Brigade, an armor unit. Based in Taji, the unit conducted its first operational mission this week with two presence patrols using both MTLB vehicles and T-55 tanks. The brigade also assumed part of the security mission at the Ministry of Defense by stationing BMPs on the MOD grounds.
According to US Army Col. David Styles, the Multi-National Security Transition Command - Iraq armor project officer, the brigade had three primary missions: conduct counter-insurgency operations to provide for a secure and stable Iraq, act as the nucleus of larger formations to facilitate the creation and expansion to a mechanized division and to be Iraq's future mobile reserve.
The brigade soldiers conducted basic skills training at the individual, squad and platoon level for weeks. The training includes physical, weapons, urban operations, traffic control point, patrol, and maintenance training that incorporates the capabilities of their mechanized and armored vehicles. Training also includes civil affairs operations as the brigade will be interacting extensively with the people of Iraq.
On 29 July 2005 the Swiss government approved the sale of 180 M113 armored personnel carriers to the United Arab Emirates. The UAE planned to transfer the 180 APCs, from a Swiss army surplus, to Iraq as a gift. This requires an end-user certicate from the Iraqi government stating that the vehicles are actually bound for Iraq. The RUAG armaments group must submit the certificate to the State Secretariat for Economic Affairs (SECO). The Swiss military equipment law prohibits the export of arms to war zones. As the APC's country of origin, the USA must also confirm that it approves of the deal.
The M113A1 is a lightly armoured full tracked air transportable personnel carrier designed to carry personnel and certain types of cargo. The M113-family was developed the from M59 and M75 which were designed by FMC (Food Machinery Corp.) in the late 1950´s. The vehicle is capable of: amphibious operations in streams and lakes; extended cross country travel over rough terrain; and high speed operation on improved roads and highways.
By August 2005 Iraq's first armored brigade was trained and in the field, with 77 Soviet-designed T-72 tanks donated to Iraq by Hungary expected to arrive in Iraq soon. Defense Solutions announced 27 July 2005 that it would deliver the first five rebuilt T-72 Main Battle Tanks to the Iraqi Army. Iraqi Staff Major General Mahmood Ayoub Bashar accepted these tanks on behalf of the Iraqi Ministry of Defense during his attendance at program review meetings held at the HM Currus Combat Vehicle Technique Company (Currus), Gödöllő, Hungary.
Currus participated in the refurbishment project under a subcontract to Defense Solutions. These tanks were part of the total of 77 T-72s being rebuilt under a contract between Defense Solutions and the Iraqi Ministry of Defense. The T-72 tanks were originally donated to Iraq by the Government of Hungary. Defense Solutions performed this work under a US State Department license.
The T-72s will be the main combat power of a new Iraqi Armor Division being created with the assistance of the U.S. Army. The Soviet-designed T-72 remains one of the world's best main battle tanks and some think it is comparable to the original M-1 Abrams tank fielded to US forces beginning in 1980. The T-72s being provided to the Iraqi Army were the original model, have not been upgraded and are no match for the highly advanced Abrams M1A2 and the M1A2 SEP (System Enhancement Program) version used by the US Army.
The T-72s were deactivated by the Hungarian Army at the end of the Cold War and placed in long-term storage. Hungary, which became part of NATO in 1999, donated the tanks to Iraq with NATO approval.
Defense Solutions, LLC is an international project management and consulting firm with offices in Washington, DC, and Philadelphia, PA, USA; Tel-Aviv, Israel; and Budapest, Hungary. Defense Solutions provides program management and strategic studies and analyses for its clients. It also provides business development and program advocacy for companies in the Defense, Homeland Security, Information Technology and Telecommunications markets. Defense Solutions utilizes a network of experts who have a wide range of specialties in industry, government, the armed forces, law enforcement, maritime security and national politics.
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