Any news about the next patch?

Q · #1 May 11th, 2001, 10:45 AM

Has anyone (of course especially Richard) news about the next patch?
I must confess that I am a little bit impatient because I want this bug about the fighters/stacking bonuses (see corresponding topic) corrected before I start a new game.

ZzZ · #2 May 11th, 2001, 11:09 AM

Please ... can anyone fix the problem with the diplomatic Messages being cut, when writing a long text.

I know that the problem mostly stands out in multiplayer games. When I send a nice little message to my fellow ally I usally write a longer text than to a "stupid" (sorry, means non-interpreting) AI-player. What then happen is, that the program cuts the message and only displays the first part. This is annoyoing. Especially because you are only allowed to send one messege per player and turn (couldn't it be 5 or at least 3?).

Thanks in advance.

ZzZ

dogscoff · #3 May 11th, 2001, 11:35 AM

I havn't noticed that, ZzZ, I geuss my Messages must be short enough. How long are your "long" Messages? How much txt does it display before it cuts off?

------------------
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"I think so, Brain, but if they called them sad meals, kids wouldn't buy them."

ZzZ · #4 May 11th, 2001, 02:18 PM

quote:
Originally posted by dogscoff:
I havn't noticed that, ZzZ, I geuss my Messages must be short enough. How long are your "long" Messages? How much txt does it display before it cuts off?

It does not depend on the number of characters ... actually it depends on the screensize for the message window in the log.

So you get not more than 14 lines of text (no matter how long your words are and how many blank characters you used). Another problem is, that when writing you can create words that are longer than one line (and the program breaks them apart) but when viewing (in the log at the beginning of a turn) the word is not broken into parts and will not be fully displayed.

Just create a two player game in hot seat mode with omnipresent view (so you make first contact in the first round) and send some example Messages and you will find out for yourself.

I also want to draw your attention again to the fact that you can only send one message per player and turn. This is crap, when I want to send and receive a gift from one player in one turn ... it is impossible.

ZzZ

[This message has been edited by ZzZ (edited 11 May 2001).]

dogscoff · #5 May 11th, 2001, 03:15 PM

I see what you mean. I play the game in 1024*768, but used to play in a smaller screenmode. I think this will probably help with the word cut-off. What screenmode do you use?

I know what you mean about the on-message per turn thing as well. I always accepted it a s a "feature" rather than a bug, but I don't see the harm in allowing a second or third message. I think if you could send more than that (you shouldn't really need to)you might get information overload in multi-human games.

I suppose it could also lead to a potential exploit where you could send multpil gifts to an AI in your turn and thn ask for a treaty straight away - normally it would take several turns to get him to like you.

------------------
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Uh, I think so, Brain, but balancing a family and a career ... oooh, it's all too much for me. "

ZzZ · #6 May 11th, 2001, 03:29 PM

quote:
Originally posted by dogscoff:
I see what you mean. I play the game in 1024*768, but used to play in a smaller screenmode. I think this will probably help with the word cut-off. What screenmode do you use?

Unfortunately it has nothing to do with screenmode ... I play in 1280 * 960.

quote:
Originally posted by dogscoff:
I know what you mean about the one-message per turn thing as well. I always accepted it a s a "feature" rather than a bug, but I don't see the harm in allowing a second or third message. I think if you could send more than that (you shouldn't really need to)you might get information overload in multi-human games.

Yeah, could be ... but why not allow two or three Messages per player and turn. If you can limit it two one ... you can also limit it to three. Or let the game master decide about it when opening the game.

quote:
Originally posted by dogscoff:
I suppose it could also lead to a potential exploit where you could send multpil gifts to an AI in your turn and thn ask for a treaty straight away - normally it would take several turns to get him to like you.

There are also ways from preventing you from doing this. Just let the "Give gift" option disappear, after one gift has been sent. Another good thing could be that you send several trade offers but the player who receives them is only allowed to accept one ...

What do you think?

ZzZ

capnq · #7 May 11th, 2001, 03:54 PM

quote:
I also want to draw your attention again to the fact that you can only send one message per player and turn. This is crap, when I want to send and receive a gift from one player in one turn ... it is impossible.

It also seems unnecessary, since you can do effectively the same thing with a single Trade Offer.

------------------
Cap'n Q

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
human mind to correlate all of its contents. We live on a placid
island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was
not meant that we should go far. -- HP Lovecraft

ZzZ · #8 May 11th, 2001, 04:08 PM

quote:
Originally posted by capnq:
It also seems unnecessary, since you can do effectively the same thing with a single Trade Offer.

Er ... not necessarily. I always try to divide most researching efforts among my allies and myself. So how should I know about their results before?

Normally it works like this. I research something that I'd like to share ... I send a gift to my ally. If he had the same idea one round before I cannot do this ... I'm just allowed to accept the gift or reject it.

If I view the gift - note down the techs inside - reject it then an propose a trade (including both gifts) I might eventually lose the gift (when the ally breaks his loyalty inbetween) or will receive it one turn later.

And even if it would work. Why make it so complicated. Why not allow two or three Messages for each player per turn?

And not to forget about the limitation for your ONE message

... how should I explain a new tactic to my ally with 14 short lines of text? It's impossible.

ZzZ

Will · #9 May 12th, 2001, 06:55 AM

quote:
Originally posted by ZzZ:
And not to forget about the limitation for your ONE message ... how should I explain a new tactic to my ally with 14 short lines of text? It's impossible.

ZzZ

Ever consider *NOT* using in game Messages, but something like, oh, I don't know... perhaps e-mail, or maybe even these instant message things...

I don't exactly see the one message limit as an inhibitor though. There are loopholes in it (multiple gifts to AI to make them not as angry at you, for example), and there are some truely valid reasons (such as demanding removal from two systems, stop ship attacks, and stop intel attacks). At the very least, if this is to be changed, a few players need to think about every possible loophole (aka cheat) with multiple Messages, ways to prevent their usage, and write everything to Aaron.

Or, another thing that could be done, have each message contain multiple parts. You can say everything you want in a single message (add a scroll bar to the text area in the news). Give a gift of technology and request one in return. Demand that the weak empire give up an outer system and submit to a Protectorate treaty. Et cetera.

Tarkin · #10 May 12th, 2001, 09:28 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Q:
Has anyone (of course especially Richard) news about the next patch?
I must confess that I am a little bit impatient because I want this bug about the fighters/stacking bonuses (see corresponding topic) corrected before I start a new game.

I'm in the same position and have been patiently waiting for an update and will continue to do so. I'm happily filling my time with "Combat Mission" until the fighter problem is corrected.

Interesting that the two best games around today have been produced by independents. Also their support is far and away better than the top money making companies in the industry.