Engine Movement bonuses

[Demorve]

I'm looking for some idea's on how to add extra bonus movement points to engines once they reach level 6. As it stands now to me once the engines reach level five it becomes wasteful to research levels 6 - 10 merely to gain extra supply storage. I'm looking to add one mvement bonus at level 6, two at level 8 and 3 at level 10. I believe that by adding these movement bonuses it makes the lower level engines more attractive. You now would have to make a choice between a sixth level Ion Engine with a bonus movement of 1 and more supplies or do you move on to the Contra - Terrene Engine. I would apply this formula to all the engines so that when you reached level 10 Quantum Engine a frigate would have a movement total of 18.

[Thy_Reaper]

Add the bonus movement ability, and make the Amount1 this:
BaseBonus + iif( [%Level%] > 5 , 1 , 0) + iif( [%Level%] > 7 , 1 , 0) + iif( [%Level%] > 9 , 1 , 0)

This should give BaseBonus at levels 1-5, BB+1 at levels 6-7, BB+2 at levels 8-9, and BB+3 at level 10.

[se5a]

use QNP and be done with it.

[Demorve]

Thy_Reaper, thanks for the formula you gave me. I was close to figuring out how the formulas worked in SEV, but with your help it put me over the top.

Here's what I finally decided to do. I changed the tech requirement for the next available engine tech to level 9 and then gave an extra movement bonus at level 10. In my opinion what this does is give you a choice: do I spend the extra research points to get the movement bonus with a large amount of supply storage, realizing that in the long run this is a temporary solution or do I spend less research points for the next engine class to get the movement bonus and start over with the supply storage?

When I tried adding the +1 at level 6, +2 at level 8 and +3 at level 10 I quickly realized that this method basically removed any incentive for researching above level 5 for the Contra-Terrene and Jacketed-Photon engines and since the goal was to make the upper levels of all the engine classes worth while to research I felt that this method wasn't any better than the stock game.

[Thy_Reaper]

You're welcome.

And now, since I haven't rambled in a long time, I shall ramble about my ideas concerning engines...

When my not-quite-started mod is in production, I plan on making each higher engine less efficient than the previous design. For example, TL1 Ion consumes 4 supplies per move, whereas a TL1 Quantum engine consumes 7. As an incentive to continue research, engines get more efficient at higher TL, where TL10 is 2 supplies/move cheaper than TL1.

I also toned down supply storage to make efficieny more important and to make supply based weapons make more of an impact. In my first test game with this method, it had the exact effect I wanted to have: Early on, low efficieny/low storage engines restrict the maximum size of the empire; Afterwards, the choice between long distances or fast ships differentiates empires. It has a very nice feel to it, in my opinion.

[President_Elect_Shang]

Are you talking about a bell curve sort of deal? Where you start out low movement low supplies then climb in movement and supply consumption and finally supplies fall but movement stays unchanged. Ok maybe a bell curve on the supply side would be more accurate. I only ask because there would be a point on any bell curve where future supply consumption and movement provided make it not worth the expended cost of additional research. So players would lose incentive to develop the higher levels.

[Thy_Reaper]

Hmm... that shouldn't happen. Basically, researching an engine decreases the supply consumption per move, whereas moving to faster engines increases the supply per move cost. The way I set it up, without too much research, dropping a single engine to add supply storages should increase your range by 20-30 moves, so space and storage become vital.

This is especially true with the faster engines, since a Quantum Engine cosumes more than twice what an Ion engine does, when both are at max level.

I did some quick math based on my numbers, and noticed that at equal level, Putting 7 Quantum engines on a ship instead of 10 Ion engines would cost no more per move, give the same speed, and give the ship 30 more kT to use, so I have to rework the numbers a bit.

I'm thinking more like:
Ion = 4 s/m at TL1, 2 s/m at TL10
C-T = 6 s/m at TL1, 4 s/m at TL10
Jkt = 8 s/m at TL1, 6 s/m at TL10
Qnt = 10 s/m at TL1, 8 s/m at TL10

That should make all engines relatively balanced, and make it possible to outrun a fast fleet if you have a decent lead to begin with.

Btw, my goal with this design choice was to limit an empire's size to begin with, and to make supply-based weapondry have more of an impact on storages without increasing numbers.

[President_Elect_Shang]

I see what you are aiming at now. No I had you going in another direction. I thought you were trying to start out at low supply per (single) movement point. Then climb in tech which would demand more supplies for the same movement point. Thus slowing empire growth by making mid-game empires shift to higher research to make more efficient engines and slow growth by making empires focus more on supply and supply runs. Finally you would have engines swing back down in supply demands once again for the same movement point. So a bell curve for supply for the same or little return in movement didn’t sound fun to me. Doing it that way could slow later games as the empires try to reclaim land no longer needed to generate the supplies to feed those engines.