Efficient use of SC against richer nation

[MaxWilson]

Apologies if this is obvious, but I'm still learning the game (vs the AI still) and I couldn't find this addressed explicitly in a search:

Suppose your research investment into SCs has recently helped you pull ahead on the power curve relative to your larger, richer neighbor who has multiple armies of hundreds of Jotun militia stomping through your territory, and you've decided to go on the offensive and take his territory. Suppose further that he's built a lot of forts and has 6 forts scattered around the 15 provinces closest to your border. What's the most efficient use of your limited number of SCs? Sieging forts seems to take 3-4 turns per fort, which kills momentum, so do you bypass them? If so, how do you hold territory you take? Or do you kill his units in your area first?

I guess it still looks tedious trying to turn this war around, and I was hoping that a good SC would change things more than it has and I'm trying to adapt my military doctrine.

-Max Wilson

[jutetrea]

bugger, hit favorites before submitting.

Anway, i'm in a similar situation with an abandoned save. at war with 4 neighbors, big boy being the jot's. I've got max magic and most arties and can hold them back, but not keep all the land i take. Bad gold economy, great gem/item setup.

What I've found to "almost" work is to push a line into their territory and defend it fiercely as a distraction. Then slowly conquer/defend along the border. Fortresses are necessary to take to slow reinforcements, and also act as a target (plus reinforcements for you). It seemed to work but was way way slow, fully decimating their big armies before they rout seems tough.

[MaxWilson]

Yeah, it is tough to wipe out the whole army. To that end I'm cranking out Wraith Lords with Boots of Flying, with the intention of cutting off their lines of retreat (so the whole army dies when it routs). That will also require semi-strong defense in various provinces, to prevent enemy armies from splitting up. I hate buying PD, but in this case buying 10 PD + cheap indies in all my provinces on the border may be a good idea. Anvil, meet hammer.

It's funny that you mention that about bad gold economy vs. good item economy. I got into Dominions because someone compared it to Master of Magic, and in MoM the problem was just the opposite of Dominions: regular units were really cheap and usually free on upkeep (because Fame offsets gold cost), while summoned units were expensive in mana to keep around. I'm still trying to rewire my instincts to use more summons. It turns out if you spend all your gold every turn on military units, your net income shrinks exponentially by 6% per turn unless you're using them up in a war. I have this reflexive tendency to blow all my money every turn on Svartalf researchers...

(At least I can obliterate any army that comes near my research fort, though. "Face the wrath of the angry librarians!")

-M.D.W.

[Taqwus]

vs. the AI? Wreck their temples (the AI does not necessarily protect temples very well), raise taxes to 200% in your path, interrupt supply lines if their armies are venturing far from their forts. Sieging is slow with SCs unless they're very, very physically strong or have siege-bonus equipment. That is, if you're going to use them separately.

Using them to lead your armies to destroy the invaders would probably be a better tactic, unless your mages and regular forces can do the job.

[Jazzepi]

I've found a really interesting benefit of a light W9 sacred bless with good scales.

You have a fractional amount of upkeep compared to other nations in the beginning of the game when expanding your army. Right now I'm playing LA t'ien chi, and I'm making out my production, building the most expensive caster every turn, and I've been doing that basically since the very beginning. I'm try to decide where to start my third castle! And I have quite the army. Since at least 3/4 of it is sacred I only pay 1/2 gold cost on those units. My upkeep is about %10 of my income.

On the flip side I'm playing EA pangea without any bless and better scales in another game. My upkeep is just abysmal, and I've built zero sacred units, and their best researcher (400 gold Pans) are not sacred.

It's interesting to see it from both sides.

Jazzepi

[jutetrea]

For me it less about taking the land then keeping it. There are about 8 or 9 300+ armies out there roaming around. I have like 2 reasonable armies and 4 good SCs. They walk over 50 PD no prob, especially the jotun. Pangaea, Jotun, Lanka, and van I think. For some reason everything was going well, then suddenly all 4 declared war and are not bothering to fight each other I've got t'ien chi so paths aren't a problem it just seems my use of magic is pretty inefficient.

[jutetrea]

Fully agree, pan is my new flavor of the month after playing EA t'ien chi for awhile. Lately its been MA and upkeep is now a definite factor. And while cool early... with no wars the maeneds bulk up quick for supply upkeep.

[MaxWilson]

Boots of Flying do seem to be the answer, combined with the patience you learn in chess: first counter his possible moves before trying to smash his armies. You may end up defending some provinces unnecessarily (wasting a turn with your SC), but it's better than letting him penetrate your perimeter and wasting *more* turns pinning him down. Presumably you can find some kind of a chokepoint that's no more 2 or 3 provinces wide and hold that, which frees up your other SCs for a counter-strike (which is where Boots of Flying helps, since you can attack at the end of your movement).

Keeping your economy healthy seems to be important, too, building temples on newly-conquered land if you have good scales, gem-searching, and playing Sherman's-March-to-the-Sea if you have a weaker neighbor you can raid with a small army.

That's all I've come up with so far. Patience and the economy.

-Max

[MaxWilson]

I should also note that you *have* to have tactical superiority. You need to feel confident of defeating any one of his armies in a straight-up battle with PD on his side. If you can't smash any army he parks on your border, he can keep building up troops along your border, and your defending army is pinned (since you don't have the one turn's warning of him moving an army onto your border). And if you're that weak, you'll probably have to keep pouring reinforcements onto your border to match his buildups, and playing the Maginot Line game with a richer enemy is a lost cause. So you *must* have tactical superiority for the chokepoint strategy to work, and if you don't then you must either expand or research until you have it, while your defending armies buy time by dying bravely.

-Max

[Shovah32]

Also, if you have magical dominance while facing an economically and militarily superior enemy dont underestimate remote spells-there are a couple of army destroyers(ghost riders and some general damage spells) and nice ways to remove commanders(mind hunt, manifestation, earth attack, infernal disease) which can greatly disrupt an enemies plans. Magical dominance should gain you the advantage in mobility and versatility and, for taking out his big armies boost your mages up to either army destroying spells(high level huge AoE/battlefield spells or massed spamming of spells such as shadow blast and falling fires) or army boosting spells; I've seen boosted militia take out over twice their number in jotuns with priestly morale boosters and alot of buffs(army of gold, will of the fates, mass mistform spell and a few castings of weapons of sharpness)