This would have been a lot better than dominions!

[CaoCao]

Even though its really limited and nowhere near as user friendly, if it would have been further improved and expanded, this would have been an pretty decent game.

They should have really contiuned this and never made dominions at all, but sadly they did not!

Well a hybrid half CoE half Dom would have worked well for sure also, but so neither is really as decent as it should be, very sadly...

[Kristoffer O]

> They should have really contiuned this ...

We did some lame attempts on the matter some years ago, but we ended up with doing dom2 instead.

> ... neither is really as decent as it should be

In what ways?

What would you have liked?

[Edi]

I liked CoE just fine, but options for larger resolutions and improved graphics (similar to Dom3 for units and the kind of stuff in your own map for terrain tiles) would make it really kick-*** even with the mechanics unchanged.

For CaoCao, I would like to pose the following question: Are you the same CaoCao who posted on the Stardestroyer.net forums?

[Gandalf Parker]

There are many things about CoE that are great but its a very different game than Dominions is. And the devs actually have bounced back to it between each version of Dominions.

I think that having two games allows the devs to take a "break" from the other game. They get to do their working on it for the fun of it plans. Both games would probably suffer if they tried to focus on just one of them.

[capnq]

CoE is so clearly an ancestor of Dominions that I'm not sure how it could have been improved in ways that didn't end up pretty similar to Dominions.

[CaoCao]

CoE and Dom both have their good things, thats why I feel like both lack something the other has and combined and expanded, it surely would have been very hard to balance, but after all it would have been a truely great game.

The feel of uniques in CoE feels a lot better than in dom. And that is while CoE is pretty limited, sure the more you expand it the harder it gets, but at the same time it gets even better.

In dom most races, are pretty similar, there are a lot, but that doesnt help a lot. They might seem different, but in the end they feel all to familiar.

The pleaseant exception like Ermor or R'lyeh
are very nice and I would have liked to see more of these and less "normal" races. Playing these makes the game a lot different and that is good. There has to be normal races but the more unique the better.

I would also like to see something that makes you more attached to your units and commanders, upgradeable troops in CoE were great, even though very limited. And many "commanders" quite important.
The huge item crafting system and heroic abilities in dom are very good aswell, but not enough on their one.
In dom I feel there are to many commanders around with great items, if some die you just forge new items and recruit and/or summon a few new ones. (Same with mages)

Commanders and troops should be able to become very powerful over a long period of time of course. So in the end you have fewer commanders and maybe even troops(depending on your race), but should one die it would be quite a blow and a huge success for any enemy you may have.

Maybe one should even be able to promote a simple unit after years and years of fighting and surviving countless battles. The lonly knight becoming a commander, the archer mastering his skills and being noticed or the lizard city guard who performed all these "tremendous" deeds in defending his country and his god.
That might be like a one in a few hundred chance or less, but oh well, some very few peasant succeded in becoming even kings... (Fire Emblem did this whole "little grunt becomes powerful" pretty good)
The weak experience system just doesnt work well!

Well then obviously more sites, just more to find and locate in all these waste unknown lands(even more sites...) and of course more event, I played games where every round there was at least one event and if it was that rats infected the food storages and ate my supplies so I had to sent a few man to solve the problem or say good bye to my food and probably face a greater rat problem in the near future. Great event, that reacted to how you handled it and just an example.

I could go on, but I guess I wrote more than enough already.

In the end there are not much good games coming out any more, so what ever you do next. I hope it becomes good.

So good luck to you and may you succedd in your task, citizen.

Your Dominar spoke and must now return to his lovely servants. We shall not let them without guidance for too long. They just dont seem to know how to enjoy their short lives without me!

[Kristoffer O]

Ah! Thanks. That was a nice, constructive and instructive answer.

I agree on much of what you say. Dominions is designed to have a core similar for all nations, while CoE is less symmetric. This makes dom easier to mod and expand. Dominions differentiates background and nation content, while CoE differentiates the playstyle and game content of the warlords/mages. Interesting point. I hadn't thought about that.

Some of your thoughts are things we want to implement in our next project.

[Arralen]

Kristoffer O said:
Ah! Thanks. That was a nice, constructive and instructive answer.

You want more of that?
Ok, scratch the "nice", but otherwise ... :

At first, let me say there's plenty of difference between (at least some) nations, even in playstyle. It would be more apparent if there wasn't "The Great Equalizer"(TM), but I'll come back to that later ...

I doubt Dom3 needs even more RPG-like events: micromanagement can be quite tedious at times already .. imaging sending out 1 commander with a 5-men-squad to hunt some rats somewhere in a backwater province .. . That kind of thing simply does not fit the scope and the focus of dominions, which is battling on a strategic and (big) tactical scale.

The feel of uniques in CoE feels a lot better than in dom. And that is while CoE is pretty limited, sure the more you expand it the harder it gets, but at the same time it gets even better.
In dom most races, are pretty similar, there are a lot, but that doesnt help a lot. They might seem different, but in the end they feel all to familiar.

That's because
- ressources are worth next to nothing, as you don't need them. Unless you're Ulm, but then you're dead before the mid-game anyway. Everyone is taking sloth and does not recruit national troops after the first few turns, because they're useless unless they belong to the handfull of overpowered F9W9 or N9Ex blessable superunits.
- gold for (national) mages is only of importance unless you have enough mages (and therefore research) to get the (upkeepfree) summons.
- starting in mid-game, everyone is summoning the same generic summons (most national summons are rather bland) using the same summoned mages.

What Dom3 needs are not even more summons (no matter if generic or somewhat restricted), but upkeep cost for everything, as to prevent summons being a no-brainer. Btw., don't even the dragons you summon in CoE2 to guard your mines cost some "upkeep" in form of income they take away from the revenue?

And it needs most likely vastly more expensive mages, or national combat commanders will nearly never by recruited. Shouldn't mages be the exception, not the rule on the battlefield after turn 20, or should they?

[Kristoffer O]

Agreed in most parts

Dragons are the only thing that costs in CoE (and golems that consumes a mine).

Upkeep free magic units in dom was an early design desicion. I have thought about it several times. I will probably make other desicions regarding upkeep in future projects.

Dominions was designed to be a game system, into which you could fit new nations. We did not intend magic to be as generic as it became, but with the limited amount of national summons etc the game was rather converegent at first. Attempts to alleviate this has come a bit on the way, but it will never be fully accomplished.

[CaoCao]

Kristoffer O said:
Some of your thoughts are things we want to implement in our next project.

That is good to hear.



The rat quest was just a example for events that can last several "turns" and change accordingly to your actions.

When you find the deepest cave in the province for example... you could decide whether you want to explore it deeply,
just take a quick look, ignore it completely or even try to seal it up/"destroy" it.

That would provide a lot more options and deeper connecting and lots of additional possibilities.
The more risk, the more possible gain.
Just a few such events would make a game and its world much more alive, with random functions their outcome could be quite different
and you could never know what you might get... The added replay and strategic value would be surely nice to have.

Do I encounter monsters, or even a whole hive? Do I find valueable items/gold/gems/"free units"?
The deeper the exploration the higher the chance for more gems/gold/??? production every turn.

You could also have a option to always be able to destroy some sites, so they do not fall into enemy hands or simple if you don't like their side effects.
If I like the freezing cold, why would I not raze a heat radiating site?
Or imagine a demonic blood temple, where innocent virgins are captured and even sacrificed... how could a righteous and beloved leader not do something against that,
without losing support from his people and feeling ashamed?
Of course, he could not!

More interaction with sites would be nice, so they are not only gem/gold/supply/unit producer.
After all some are magnificent buildings and most important to you and your race or your enemies...

Surely this is only a small part, but could improve the whole quite a bit.


Your Dominar spoke once again and my trust in you, my most beloved citizen, is great.
Your hard work shall prosper greatly and its fruit be harvested without any delay, for me to enjoy!
If the Dominar is most well, his loyal subjects surely must be as well!