Looking for tips from the pros

[darkchampion3d]

I'm pretty new to dom3 though I think I've got most of the basics down of how to play. Can thoroughly trounce the AI on normal so decided to move it up to hard.

The result: I get destroyed. Here's a screenshot of my latest game. Turn 37. Right before I got crushed between 3 AIs.



Tried a few games and I keep getting wrecked and I'm not really seeing what I do wrong. So maybe some of you folks who yawn while killing impossible AIs will have some pointers Warning this post is extremely long as I put in whatever info I thought may be relevant so someone can tell me where I went wrong. Thanks in advance to anyone who bothers reading the whole thing

Playing as EA Mictlan. Random map w/ 15 provinces per player. I have a bless oriented (f9/w9/b4) imprisoned fountain of blood pretender with turmoil 3,sloth 3,heat 3,growth 1,luck 1,magic 1.

My research went construction 4->blood 2->thau 2->evocation 2->blood 6->was going for construction 6 when the roof fell in.

Had a decent start, spamming out jaguar warriors to go take land and putting down 3 forts (cheap 800g ramparts) by the end of the first year. They are all within 2 provinces of eachother to allow me to quickly consolidate the jaguars that are built. Had ~15 provinces by then with 2 main groups finishing up the last few unclaimed lands. Doing a few random site searches with the high priest whenever I stop to buy random units to reinforce them, but other than that, none. Waiting for Thau2/Evocation2 before I bother looking for any.

Right about here is when Helheim declares war on me. He has 6 provinces and one fort... ok. His first army was destroyed by mine on accident when we went for the same independent province around turn 3 so it's not looking good for him.

He gets a few of my province defense 1 border areas. So I quickly crank up the province defense in threatened areas to about 25-30 to stop him while my 2 armies move back towards his lands. This works great thanks to the Jaguars you get on defense and they stop his advance cold. My main groups get there in a few turns and pick up reinforcements before quickly pushing straight toward his capital (around 20-30 jaguars and 10-20 eagle warriors in each group) with 5 tribal kings creating slave hordes behind them to catch arrows later and provide a block of troops to knock down his walls faster.

By now I've got 4 forts with blood slaves just starting to come in. I've got Ermor on my left, Sauromatia above, Atlantis below and Fomoria to my right behind Helheim. Oceana is above Sauromatia and declared war on me by like turn 5 (hadnt even scouted them yet) but they haven't done anything of importance since I let Sauromatia get the 2 independent coastal provinces up there to block them off. Building priests and jaguar warriors at all of my forts and various high priests/eagle warriors at the capital. I notice the only nations at war besides me and Helheim are fighting halfway across the map while all of my neighbors are at peace with eachother.

Things look good for now. If they stay nice just a few more turns while my blood starts to ramp up I should be able to hold off anything they throw at me. I wonder if maybe this game I'll actually survive...

No.

Next turn Sauromatia attacks my northern front and quickly captures my front line provinces with huge stacks of archers and random infantry. I get an army out and stop them at a 2 province wide choke point above Mictlan while another 200 strong force of theirs walks down my western edge. A 2nd army augmented with my first 30 beast bats heads over to stop them.

Both the western and northern Sauromatian forces are stopped, though it ends up costing me quite a few eagle warriors and beast bats to kill their masses of archers. The jags fared ok thanks to them though and I still have most of them ready to fight. By now Vanheim has 2 provinces (both forts) divided by Fomoria (the province in between got a barbarian attack and Fomoria snapped it up the next turn). They can't do anything while I sit on their capital so I send one of my two armies up to help with Sauromatia. The combined force proceeds to push them back up to roughly where we were before the whole thing started. Then I see new massive reinforcement stacks and crank up the PD to 20 on the lands my armies ended on to hold them off. They hold (barely in one case).

While this is going on I'm continually streaming in more jags, bats, and eagle warriors to replace the lost and Helheim's gates finally fall.

Unfortunately this costs me in research and blood as I can't afford everything at once. So there are a few turns where I'm only getting 0-2 priests in addition to the jags. Notice some huge armies wandering about Ermor and Fomoria... I hope they go bother someone else.

Yeah right. Next turn, just as things stabilize with Sauromatia and I get ready to send up a force of 120 jags, 30 bats and 50 eagle warriors to punch a hole, Ermor attacks my entire western side with over a thousand troops all put together. All of my provinces have at least 10 defense, with most having 20 and the 2 blood hunting lands having 30. Everything but one blood hunter province collapses immediately (30pd w/ 4 priests casting imps and such actually did amazing against even 200 guys) I am forced to split my huge group into two armies to try and stop them. Also notice Sauromatia has brought down a stack of 30+ hydras to attack with next turn... great. I consolidate 2 border armies together onto the 30pd province the hydras are coming to to try and hold them off.

Next turn... the Hydras take a beating but punch through (they HURT) and Ermor takes a few more provinces and besieges one of my forts. The bigger of my two armies (80 troops w/ about 40 slave arrow catchers) positions to intercept their biggest group of about 300 while the other goes to relieve the fort. By now I'm making bats as fast as I can and spamming out Jags. The armies are each led by a priest king or two along with a sun priest. Scripted as follows: (blood lust)(reinvigoration)(summon imp)(summon imp) and the sun priest has (divine bless)(hellfire)(hellfire)(smite)(smite).

Next turn, the hydras push further, I lift the Ermor siege on my fort and kill about 200 of their men in another battle with moderate losses. There is another wave coming for the fort so I set my group to patrol and crank up PD as high as I can while the other group holds their ground as well. Also send another group of jags/bats to finish off those damn hydras.

Next turn, the group at the fort routes and the freaking hydras ARE STILL ALIVE (7 left). Move 30 bats up to kill them. My westernmost army kills another 200 or so. Next wave has ~300 -_- My southern provinces seem to be holding fine after that one blood hunting group managed to kill everything that was thrown at it.

Next turn.... Fomoria declares war and backs it up with huge armies crashing down on me. I have nothing to send to try and stop them. There is no choke point... Dead.

So what did I do wrong?

[Edi]

Nothing that I could see. You just started from a position that is too wide open for Mictlan, because you need a lot of infra for expansion (temples for dominion spread etc) and your troop quality aside from sacreds sucks.

You should also play with independents set on 7, that will slow down the AI a bit more so that you can expand without needing to worry about an immediate AI rush. Another problem with the AI is that it uses huge hordes of independents instead of its own national troops. That problem can be mitigated with the Better Independents mod linked in my sig.

[Juzza]

I'll give you one tip that may very well save your life one day, it is something many pros have said to me again and again. "Don't listen to Juzzas advice"

[atul]

"He gets a few of my province defense 1 border areas."

A tip that works only against the AI: It seems much of their decision who to attack depends on the apparent power and difficulty to attack bordering provinces. Setting PD to 1 on border province basically invites an AI nation attack. 11 or so should prevent some, I've noticed that with PD of 21 or higher AI rarely attacks.

Anyway, only in SP. In MP, PD above autopatrol (10) is usually waste of money, many times PD of 1 is perfectly viable.

[Meglobob]

Considering you were surrounded and attacked on all sides you did not do too bad.

Alot of AI's were declaring war on you. This is probably because you have a low army graph compared to them. The AI's are bullies they all gang up on what they view as the weakest nation and a small army equals a weak nation to them. You could have spammed loads of slaves to make yourself look stronger. They would then have hopefully picked on someone else and you could strike well they are busy.

Consider investing in a thug or 2 as well, to try to hold your lines.

Use mercenaries more when your troops are over stretched.

View blood hunting/blood magic as more of a end of game winning tactic, it takes alot of time to pay off.

Avoid overreacting to invasions, ie...pulling your troops from 1 front to another. Sometimes you after sacrifice a little land to win the war. Better to concentrate on totally knocking 1 of your enemies out even if that involves losing some of your kingdom.

Its usually better to retreat than lose all your forces. Only fight battles you can win. Nations that keep there forces alive often end up winning the war.

[darkchampion3d]

atul said:
"He gets a few of my province defense 1 border areas."

A tip that works only against the AI: It seems much of their decision who to attack depends on the apparent power and difficulty to attack bordering provinces. Setting PD to 1 on border province basically invites an AI nation attack. 11 or so should prevent some, I've noticed that with PD of 21 or higher AI rarely attacks.

Anyway, only in SP. In MP, PD above autopatrol (10) is usually waste of money, many times PD of 1 is perfectly viable.

Even with Mictlan? I'm getting a Jaguar warrior for every point above 19. Seeing as they cost 25gold anyways, it doesn't seem to be too bad of a deal to get up to 30ish PD for the Jags that don't count towards my normal production limit. AI is smart enough to bless too with the free priest even if my divine blesser moves on.

But I will try the suggestions given later on. Thanks

[Endoperez]

It's good if you're going to fight a lot in that province, and keep on winning. Human players probably won't assault it many times with forces that aren't good enough to beat you. If it's a chokepoint, go for it. If it's not, he'll go around it. If he goes around it, or you take a few provinces and the front of the war moves, you can't move the PD elsewhere.

For some nations, it's worth the money, but it's always situational.

[sector24]

Two very good suggestions already made:

1) The computer will only attack you when it perceives the gain of at least 1 province. If you pump the PD on your borders and/or leave small armies in those provinces, it goes a long way towards keeping the peace.

2) I think you went into blood research too early. I noticed you have 0 conjuration which generally means no thugs. If you are going to have a smaller army graph by recruiting higher quality troops, then you need to quickly move to thugs and SCs. If not, then it's in your best interest to get lots of slaves and 10/4 archers and other cheap units to pump up your graph.

For what it's worth, I have lost lots of promising games in the same way you did. The trick is to either change the map options (harder independants, higher mountain %, different map dimensions like a tower map) or quickly advance your magic because you can't beat their massive chaff armies unless you build equally large chaff armies yourself, which you typically don't want to do.

I think the people on the forums that say that AI is a joke change the map options in the player's favor, like lots of magic sites or only having 4 opponents. It's very easy to divide and conquer when there are so few nations. I play small maps with 20 opponents and usually default settings, and this type of thing happens all the time because everyone gets crunched up against each other quickly, and you always have the smallest army graph. These types of situations are winnable, but you have to have the thugs/SCs summoned and equipped before the 3rd nation declares war on you or you typically can't recover.

[NTJedi]

darkchampion3d said:
I'm pretty new to dom3 though I think I've got most of the basics down of how to play. Can thoroughly trounce the AI on normal so decided to move it up to hard.

The result: I get destroyed. Here's a screenshot of my latest game. Turn 37. Right before I got crushed between 3 AIs.

You started in a difficult location and did alright. Two provinces on the far northeast should have waited as it stretched your armies more thin. Try growing more like a circle while expanding towards choke points. Avoid marching into war when surrounded by multiple AIs and use the graphs to identify the most powerful AIs via provinces, income and army size. Avoid the most powerful AI until you have the strength to expand into them.

[Velusion]

darkchampion3d said:

Even with Mictlan? I'm getting a Jaguar warrior for every point above 19. Seeing as they cost 25gold anyways, it doesn't seem to be too bad of a deal to get up to 30ish PD for the Jags that don't count towards my normal production limit. AI is smart enough to bless too with the free priest even if my divine blesser moves on.

But I will try the suggestions given later on. Thanks

Yep - even with Mictlan. PD manipulation is the best way to control where the AI will attack. In SP pumping up your PD to crazy levels (20+) *usually* keeps the AI from attacking. The PD/AI handicaps are one the main reasons I lost interest in SP and moved on to MP.

You have a challenging open position being very exposed on so many fronts. I would expect you to lose quite number of provinces before you leveled out and came back.