Balance opinions

[quantum_mechani]

Since it looks like I will finally have some time to start updating the Conceptual Balance mod again, I thought it might be useful to get some general feedback from the community. In particular, I'm interested in knowing how many people are interested in balance mods, but are deterred by specific changes, lack of transparency, or simply being unaware of them.

[Ewierl]

Having played a few SP games and one MP game with CB mod up, I was generally pleased with the unit (and pretender) stat/cost changes and displeased with the magic/forging changes. The former felt like fixes and adjustments, while the latter often led to major strategic changes.

[CUnknown]

I clicked "...but outweigh any improvements" but I only meant that for items and nations mods. The others are great! I was debating whether to click the last or second to last one.

[Velusion]

I don't play the CB mods because of the amount of changes and the learning curve.

I finally feel fairly comfortable with vanilla Dom3 MP. The thought of playing CB where almost every stat/spell/monster has been changed is too much.

[quantum_mechani]

Velusion said:
I finally feel fairly comfortable with vanilla Dom3 MP. The thought of playing CB where almost every stat/spell/monster has been changed is too much.

Having been through almost all the stats/spells/monsters (and taking into account all the changes I've never gotten around to making), I can tell you CB hardly scratches the surface.

That said, it does make a great many changes, but I don't think the vast majority of these increase the learning curve. Very few people have memorized, for instance, the costs of units and spells not widely considered viable in MP, and that is where almost all the changes lie.

[Jazzepi]

Velusion said:
I don't play the CB mods because of the amount of changes and the learning curve.

I finally feel fairly comfortable with vanilla Dom3 MP. The thought of playing CB where almost every stat/spell/monster has been changed is too much.

Same here.

Jazzepi

[quantum_mechani]

This was actually another issue I had in mind with the poll, that I should have separated out from the better documentation option. Or perhaps it is a better fit with 'specific issues' since I get the feeling that most people with this opinion have tried it, found a particular strategy that is made more difficult by CB, and then become intimidated by the list of other changes. The way CB should work, however, is that anything viable base game should still work, with any additional strategies made viable being tried out at one's leisure. A few changes (such as the one to dwarven hammers), have perhaps gotten away from this and that is the sort of thing I am looking to polish.

[djo]

I chose "...too much hassle" for the reasons given above: too many changes to absorb. I'm not worried about most of them; I don't mind the minor changes, and I like the boosts that encourage variety (eg, I like being able to use the drakes).

What gets me are the dozen or so "gotcha's", like when you forget that a key path booster has jumped a level and you can't reach it anymore. Or when a key unit is changed enough to be strategy-changing. They come up very infrequently, but they are frustrating when they do.

I would also like better documentation, but the current docs aren't too bad.

[quantum_mechani]

That sounds like the specific changes sort of issues. I think I will likely do a follow up thread to pinpoint those issues better, I already am aware of several like hammers, boosters (those changes were actually already removed in a previous version), and indy commanders.

[djo]

I should add as a follow-up that one reason I find these changes hard to assimilate is that I just don't play that many games. I am usually in 1-2 MP games and 0-1 SP games at any given time. Not a lot of time to get familiar with vanilla, never mind big mods.

That said, the smaller, more easily digested chunks of CB (scales, pretenders), I do like. I am a big fan of variety, and I fully support the goal of making all the choices more useful.