British 2pdr Anti-Tank Gun

RERomine · #1 October 25th, 2008, 03:11 PM

Has anyone had a problem with the 2pdrs firing at infantry targets?

I've got a campaign going and am fighting against the British. The AI has a lot of 2pdr AT guns and A13 cruiser tanks and they are firing at infantry, meaning the main gun, without HE. They shouldn't be able to do that. In reality, anything can shoot at anything as long as you have ammo, but as I understand it, programming prevents firing AP ammo at infantry targets. At least it prevents ME from firing AP at infantry targets. My tanks or guns run out of HE and they just fire machine guns or small arms, if it's an AT gun. Just to test things, I set up a game where I could control both sides and it wouldn't let me shoot 2pdrs and the main guns from the A13 tanks at infantry. But during my campaign, that's exactly what is happening.

Mobhack · #2 October 25th, 2008, 03:34 PM

What exact unit class is being fired at? - ATG can fire solid shot at soft vehicles (I destroyed a couple of Italian truck SP-AT this afternoon with 2 pounder), and motorcyclists as I recall, are classed as vehicles (sort-of).

If not - a save game would be useful for debug.

Cheers
Andy

RERomine · #3 October 26th, 2008, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mobhack

What exact unit class is being fired at? - ATG can fire solid shot at soft vehicles (I destroyed a couple of Italian truck SP-AT this afternoon with 2 pounder), and motorcyclists as I recall, are classed as vehicles (sort-of).

If not - a save game would be useful for debug.

Cheers
Andy

They were targeting leg units, engineers to be exact. I dismounted them to clear some obstacles and was pushing them forward to see what was beyond the smoke after clearing some wire and dragons teeth. At the moment, I don't have any saved file to send as I continued with the assault and gave the 2pdrs a bit more respect. The 2pdrs are effective against soft vehicles, such as trucks and motorcycles, but that was expected.

My G2 section got reamed out because of the unexpected capability of the 2pdrs

iCaMpWiThAWP · #4 October 26th, 2008, 11:34 AM

are you sure that it was a 2pdr? it could have been a 25pdr

RERomine · #5 October 26th, 2008, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iCaMpWiThAWP

are you sure that it was a 2pdr? it could have been a 25pdr

Definitely 2pdrs. Tanks firing were A13 Mk II (not the CS variant) and there were some 2pdr ATGs as well. The only 25pdrs the British had were off board artillery.

I'm getting ready to start an assault against the Australians. They use 2pdrs as well, so I'll keep an eye open for it. If it occurs again, I'll save a file. It may be a bug with just the British, however. I'll know soon.

Mobhack · #6 October 26th, 2008, 12:47 PM

Later 2 pdr do have HE, but not the a13s.

It may be an engineer unit class is bugged (if they were only firing at particular sappers) - which ones do you have fielded?.

Andy

RERomine · #7 October 26th, 2008, 01:23 PM

The engineers were SS Sturmpionieres. I don't know what the date of the battle was, but my current battle is 4/1941 so the battle where I had problems wouldn't be any later than that.

At this point, none of the 2pdrs should have HE. Traditional thinking by the British at the time was a 40mm HE round was too small to be effective so they didn't bother with it. They found themselves at a disavantage in gun duels with German ATGs, either 37mm or 50mm, that the finally figured out they needed some sort of HE rounds. I don't know when all this happened, however.

DRG · #8 October 27th, 2008, 09:59 AM

`

I set up a quick test game and bought a large number of Sturmpionieres and sent them attacking at a large number of 2 Pdr guns and the 2 Pdrs will indeed fire at the Sturmpionieres.....with their rifles.

I did not see one 2 Pdr fire it's main gun at any infantry target.

Don

`

RERomine · #9 October 27th, 2008, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRG

`

I set up a quick test game and bought a large number of Sturmpionieres and sent them attacking at a large number of 2 Pdr guns and the 2 Pdrs will indeed fire at the Sturmpionieres.....with their rifles.

I did not see one 2 Pdr fire it's main gun at any infantry target.

Don

`

When I ran my test battle, I had the same result as you. It was just in the one campaign battle I had the problem. I was hoping to see it again in my next battle so I could save a file, but the only 2pdrs the were two mounted on trucks and in bunkers with 25pdrs as the #1 weapons. One truck I dispatched with artillery and the other with tanks so those didn't even fire. As for the bunkers, I didn't want to approach the front of those just to try to draw a shot. My unit would probably just pop smoke and run from the 25pdr anyhow. I figure to let it happen again in the normal course of playing and I can send out a file then.

I'm sure of what I saw when the problem occurred because I had just cleared wire and dragons teeth on the bottom edge of the map with my Sturmpionieres. To their North and Northwest was British infantry, to their Northeast was about eight A13 Mk II (behind the infantry) and to their East was a couple of 40mm AA guns, two 2pdr ATGs and several Vickers HMG positions.

The AA guns and ATGs were dispatched with a combination of artillery strikes and attacks by the engineers, but the HMGs were giving me fits. Can't easily kill what you can't see. I used additional smoke to screen my engineers from the infantry they were past and the HMGs they were not and pushed toward the tanks, figuring they would be vulnerable to engineers since M13s don't have HE ammo. I wasn't as worried about the machine guns. That's when I started taking fire from 2pdr main guns from the A13 Mk IIs. It was so bad I brought up my mine clearing tanks to slowly pick them off. My poor engineers ended up taking a beating in my soaking off attacks against the British tanks before I moved my tanks in.

Until it happens again, I'm not going to worry about it, but I am going to respect the possibility that 2pdrs will shoot HE. For all I know, it was just a corrupted parameter file that cleared up after that battle finished. As I said above, in my last battle units with 2pdrs didn't get a chance to shoot at infantry units, engineer or otherwise.

DRG · #10 October 27th, 2008, 01:40 PM

OK.. lets go back and review what's been written here and go over a few important details

The ONLY Commonwealth A13's that have HE in the game are the British A13 CS's with 3.7in Howitzers. None of the other A13's in any OOB have ANY HE other than that 1 unit. The game does no invent ammo it's not asigned. If you were being fired at by the main armament A13's with HE then it was the ones with the 3.7in Howitzers.

However, part way though this you start talking about M13's. There ARE "M13's in the Anzac OOB.. captured Italian M13's that DO have HE and will shoot it at you.

Bottom line. Next time. Take a save game.

Don