Uhm, stupid question: GoRing crushers?

Poopsi · #1 May 26th, 2009, 05:51 PM

I am playing a game as MA agartha and I've gotten KinBreaker as a hero. So, I saw that he had already big HP and big defense, so I put on him a blacksteel full plate and boots of the behemot, and just sent him around to trounce independents and chaff.

And it just occured to me that the crusher has similarily high defense, and even more HP. Doesn't that make him a good thug chassis, even if it cant self-buff?

ano · #2 May 26th, 2009, 07:50 PM

If he was a commander, probably yes, but paying 20 nature + equipment for a thug that can retreat by no means is not wise at all.

Poopsi · #3 May 26th, 2009, 08:00 PM

(15 nature in CBM)

(in fact, cheaper than the Agarthan marble oracle: 35 earth gems vs 8 earth gems + 15 nature gems.
To this add the cost of 5 earth gems for boots of the behemoth (must have), and possibly other stuff (some decent armor, shields, a weapon for the rare enemy that is larger than you...)

Omnirizon · #4 May 26th, 2009, 08:14 PM

maybe JUST the boots is OK... he's got natural 24 prot, right? If you're using him for basic raiding you may not need much else.

also, not being able to retreat is often an advantage. there are many times you would have one if your soldiers had just stuck around. I often give the cheaper undead commander summons an amulet of Lycanthrope and some low level thug equipment and utilize them as light raiders or even skirmishers.

ano · #5 May 26th, 2009, 08:45 PM

It is not an advantage because you are short of maneuver. If the enemy decides to attack you in magic phase you may do nothing other than accept the fight. And be killed in most cases.
You can't script retreat for a mindless commander and that is the biggest problem.

Also, I'm not a fan of marble oracles because they have the same problem though they are quite tough and hard to kill. But still I once killed 3 or 4 with a Djinn and they could do absolutely nothing. A huge waste of gems.
But marble oracle has 16 MR while Crusher and Gargoyle have 12 which means they are very vulnerable to something like opposition and, again, you can't do anything with that.
It's up to you, of course, but a good player will beat it easily.

Micah · #6 May 26th, 2009, 11:16 PM

Actually you can script retreat orders for mindless commanders, they just have to be able to get off the battlefield in 1 turn. A quirk of the engine makes it take a turn before they "realize" they're routing and go into evaporate mode.

ano · #7 May 27th, 2009, 05:13 AM

Really? Nice bug. I'll test it.

Poopsi · #8 May 27th, 2009, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Also, I'm not a fan of marble oracles because they have the same problem though they are quite tough and hard to kill. But still I once killed 3 or 4 with a Djinn and they could do absolutely nothing. A huge waste of gems.
But marble oracle has 16 MR while Crusher and Gargoyle have 12 which means they are very vulnerable to something like opposition and, again, you can't do anything with that.

BTW: on this line: MA Ermor just apostathized my Kin-Breaker thug.So add to the gored crushers the advantage of not being holy.

Zeldor · #9 May 27th, 2009, 12:17 PM

It may be worth trying for MA Agartha and their boosts. But not being able to rout from battles is a huge problem that should not really exist. It is really stupid to see someone die just because it is turn50 of the battle.

Omnirizon · #10 May 27th, 2009, 04:01 PM

oh... I didn't realize. Do mindless things die on turn 50? whereas something that is, say, berserk will fight until the turn 75 (or is it 100) mark when everything else is forced to flee?