Gemgen alternative idea.

[Fantomen]

When following the discussion about gem generators, it struck me that one solution to this problem could be to make them summons.

• They could be immobile with 1hp so would be fragile in war.
• Hammers wouldn´t help in summoning them
• They could be assigned a hefty upkeep (like 50g per turn) to prevent hoarding

The downside is that while they could still be multipath, they would only cost gems of one type. Like 20 water for clams (aquatic?), 40 blood slaves for stones and 15 nature for fetishes (spreads disease in province?).

Opinions? Is it possible?

[Sombre]

Possible with mod commands, yes.

I don't think it's a good idea though.

[Micah]

Should be possible, but it doesn't fix the problem, which is that non-capturable, recursive income generation is a flat-out bad mechanic that's really not worth fixing.

I know some people are set on clinging to gem-gens as "the only way for x nation to win," so I think we should brainstorm on *fun* ways to make some of the underpowered nations in the game more competitive, instead of trying to fix the problem with a bigger, more unfun problem.

[Sombre]

Yeah it keeps coming up that by removing gen gems you wreck certain nations - I think they were wrecked anyway in terms of fun if gem gens were so important to them. But any mod that removes gen gems could also compensate the nations worst hit.

It isn't really hard to come up with ideas to boost MA Oceania, Machaka or Bandar Log is it? I mean even tinkering with the paths on their mages would work.

[Kuritza]

Or it might not, balance is a delicate matter.

Besides, removing gem generators means there's only one valid strategy left: 'conquer more provinces faster'. I am not sure I like it.

[Burnsaber]

Shameless advertisement time!

I've already made a mod for Oceania to boost it in a gem-gen-less enviroment. The changes are currently incorporated in the UWGIM mod (see my sig for link). If someone wants just the national changes in a mod, just PM me and I can whip one up quickly.

[Sombre]

Originally Posted by Kuritza

Or it might not, balance is a delicate matter.

Besides, removing gem generators means there's only one valid strategy left: 'conquer more provinces faster'. I am not sure I like it.

So the game boils down to two strategies? Make gem gens and/or conquer more provinces faster?

Pretty sure there's a lot more to one of those strategies than the other.

[Kuritza]

Well, not quite two, of course. There's also 'get more tartarians' game, diplomacy, 'be LA Rlyeh or Ermor' - this one is rather hard to do if you didnt pick Rlyeh or Ermor initially, of course...

And no, I dont think that 'rush neighbours' is that much more creative than 'clam like crazy'. Gem gens alone dont win the game, nor does rush. But two viable paths are better than one.

[Fantomen]

My idea was basically centered around the upkeep. If having 10 clams cost you 500 gold per turn it will never be a competitive strategy on it´s own.

Then it would still be available for those nations where a little gem boost could open up their national summons like Ma Agartha or Bandar log, but you´d still never get to the absurd 100:eds of gems per turn. 100 clams would be an upkeep of 5000.

Just an idea somewhere in between. I still like gemgens myself, but maybe I just need some more late game nightmares to set me straight

[Sombre]

I don't think people were claiming rushing is creative. It is inarguably more interactive than clamming though.

Not sure why I'm responding really, since I think the reduction of the game to 'rush or genhoard or be la ermor or rlyeh' is silly.