British Commando Units

[Cross]

SP has two different types of Commando:

Army Commando
Royal Marine Commando

I looked into the historical organization of Commando Troops and found that SP has quite accurately represented 1944 Royal Marine Commando Troop (though I wish the expensive sniper was optional add on). But I think the Army Commando Troop could be improved.

Currently, in SP, an Army Commando Troop [300] consists of 9 units (one officer leading 9 sections):

1x HQ (4 men, officer, Lt)
4x Support (4 men)
4x Sections (11 men)

Historically, the Army Commando Troop looked more like this:

1x HQ (10 men, officer, Capt)
2x HQ (2 men, officer, Lt)
4x Section (13 men)

Tough to model the above in SP because of the 2 man HQ sections. But here’s two options that would much improve the current situation:

A.
1x HQ (13 men, officer, Lt)
4x Section (13 men)

B.
1x HQ (10 men, officer, Capt)
2x HQ (4 men, officer, Lt)
4x Section (11 men)

I think one of the above would make the Army Commando Troop far more SP appropriate, and would cause them to be the more fearsome force of their reputation.

I realize that OOB changes can impact scenarios, but hopefully there’s a way to add or improve these units.

Cheers,
Cross

Source:

http://bayonetstrength.150m.com/British/british_commando.htm

[redcoat2]

A Commando OOB showing their standard late war establishment (introduced in August/September 1943).



Note: the Heavy Weapons Troop includes drivers because the 3in. mortars and Vickers HMGs were transported with jeeps and trailers.

[Cross]

Redcoat,

Your OOB also shows three officers (one Capt, and two Lts) and also shows sections of 13 men and no small 'support' sections.

But it does does differ where it shows the troop HQ as 4 instead of 10, and the Section HQ as 3 instead of 2.

Thanks,
Cross

[redcoat2]

I was curious to see whether early war Commandos were organized differently and so I looked them up. Here is the standard Commando OOB that was used until the reorganization/re-equipping of August/September 1943.



There was no dedicated Heavy Weapons Troop originally – but 3in. mortars and Vickers MGs were used on an ad hoc mission-by-mission basis when they were considered appropriate. The permanent Heavy Weapons Troop was introduced as the Commandos began to be used more as assault troops rather than as hit-and-run raiders.

[Cross]

Redcoat,

Interesting, 14 men per section.

I think one of the problems is that a standard Commando Troop is hard to pin down. Flexibility was built into their organization, and would be changed depending on the mission.

My main concern, with the current setup, is the one officer responsible to rally nine sections! This isn't the USSR ;-)

It seems like Commando troops should be officer heavy. A troop was really a stripped down company, not a platoon with all sorts of add-ons.

I can live with one officer if it's only 5 sections; but this elite unit is handicapped in SP.

cheers,
Cross

[redcoat2]

According to Osprey’s Battle Orders: British Commandos 1940-46 “command responsibility was devolved down to junior officers, NCOs and men, who were expected to exercise a degree of leadership, initiative and responsibility unknown in regular units.” It would be good if this could be simulated in the game somehow.

The organizational charts show Signals troops as part of the units HQ. I suspect that many of them would have been spread throughout the organization for intercommunication purposes – down to Troop and Section level at least.

[Cross]

One of the problems with my original suggestion 'B', is that it would turn a Commando Troop into a SP Company formation, probably led by a Capt; so if you were to buy a whole Commando (5 Troops) it wouldn't fit into the SP tiers of companies and platoons.

Option 'A' would disguise the HQ unit, which is a benefit that most SP units have; and would allow you to add additional support units as needed. Which is how it is with most infantry types, and this should be even more true for the versatile Commando.

Then people could buy a basic Commando troop, a troop that with 5 sections of 13 men would be - in SP - solid and hard hitting; and then add a sniper, support, heavy weapons, mortars, HMG, scouts etc as you see fit. Customize the troop for the mission.


cheers,
Cross

[Marek_Tucan]

What about using "half-squads" of 7 instead of "squads" of 13-14? I guess that with such a number the squads anyway acted more like two elements, the only question remains whether equal or rather "fire support" and "maneuver".
To show what I think, both Czechoslovakian army and German one used pre-WWII rather large sections of 13-14 men, that were divided between a ca. 4-5 men "machinegun team" servicing a LMG to suppress the enemy and the rest was "maneuver team" to move in close.

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by redcoat2

I was curious to see whether early war Commandos were organized differently and so I looked them up. Here is the standard Commando OOB that was used until the reorganization/re-equipping of August/September 1943.



There was no dedicated Heavy Weapons Troop originally – but 3in. mortars and Vickers MGs were used on an ad hoc mission-by-mission basis when they were considered appropriate. The permanent Heavy Weapons Troop was introduced as the Commandos began to be used more as assault troops rather than as hit-and-run raiders.

This organisation seems to be a wee bit of a return to the old gunpowder musket days(1700s-1900 or so), used for line battalions to order volley fires.

Each company would be split into two platoons or 'firings'. and sometimes each platoon was then further split into two halves known as section 'firings'.

Volley fire from the muskets was a combination of each platoon firing together, or in section firings. (AKA rolling volleys). The volleys could start on the wing companies and work to the centre companies, or vice versa.

The idea was that some fraction of the battalion would always have muskets ready to fire, so the line could not be totally surprised by unexpected events (e.g. some cavalry turning up and getting a free charge home).


Some other points re the conversation in general:
1) in SP it is a bad idea to have dedicated identifiable infantry elements (or silly command tanks) as HQs since those are immediately branded with a 'kill me first' badge to OPFOR non-AI players.

2) British APC seem to have a 12 person lift maximum. A CDO split into say 13 man lumps could not use half-tracks, light trucks or kangaroos, but would fit on tanks (13 man lift) and medium trucks. Terrapins do 25 men, so could not quite handle 2x13 man elements in an amphib assault.

You should probably work on 12 man lumps, and post any excess to the platoon and coy HQs to make normal sized sections and some attachments down to same (Bn level snipers, REME drivers, signallers etc)

And remember that in any case, most formations were under strength as a rule even before enemy action (men off sick, on leave, on courses and so forth).

Being on full strength, and especially over-strength was rare as hen's teeth in reality - but it is the full paper strength temple that the TO&E fanatics tend to bow down and worship at .

Andy

[Cross]

Originally Posted by Marek_Tucan

What about using "half-squads" of 7 instead of "squads" of 13-14? I guess that with such a number the squads anyway acted more like two elements, the only question remains whether equal or rather "fire support" and "maneuver".
To show what I think, both Czechoslovakian army and German one used pre-WWII rather large sections of 13-14 men, that were divided between a ca. 4-5 men "machinegun team" servicing a LMG to suppress the enemy and the rest was "maneuver team" to move in close.

Hi Marek,

The Germans and Russians have plenty of 13 and 12 men sections in SP. Most of the Japanese infantry are 12 men sections.

SP doesn't usually split squads/sections into their two fire teams of say 3 men (LCorp, LMG and loader) and 7 men (Corp/Sgt with 7 rifles).

I don't think going down to that mirco-level works that well in this game. It probably would work ok if ALL sections in SP were organized like that. And there's the additional team for an officer to rally.

But keep in mind that a section usually sits in a 50M hex (approx. 250 Sq M). The LMG probably isn't going to be far from the rifles, and IRL if the LMG was KO'd a rifle would take over the LMG, which is how SP roughly works. If the LMG is seperate and the LMG is KO'd it's gone.

Originally Posted by Mobhack

Some other points re the conversation in general:

1) in SP it is a bad idea to have dedicated identifiable infantry elements (or silly command tanks) as HQs since those are immediately branded with a 'kill me first' badge to OPFOR non-AI players.

Agree. A good reason to go with 5 same size sections, similar to how most SP infantry platoons/HQs are represented. Which is one of my points/concerns, that the Army Commando Troop would be better represented if it was brought in line with other infantry units in SP.

Originally Posted by Mobhack

2) British APC seem to have a 12 person lift maximum. A CDO split into say 13 man lumps could not use half-tracks, light trucks or kangaroos, but would fit on tanks (13 man lift) and medium trucks. Terrapins do 25 men, so could not quite handle 2x13 man elements in an amphib assault.

Good point, I hadn't even thought of this.

Originally Posted by Mobhack

You should probably work on 12 man lumps, and post any excess to the platoon and coy HQs to make normal sized sections and some attachments down to same (Bn level snipers, REME drivers, signallers etc)

Andy

If the Army Commando Troops had five 12 men sections that would be 60 men which is about right for a historical formation of 60 to 66 men, a couple of whom were runners or medics and not represented in SP.


cheers,
Cross