NZ M10 tank busters

[redcoat2]

I have a couple of suggestions for the New Zealand OOB (spob15): (1) add the 3-inch M10 self-propelled gun and (2) bring forward the availability date of the 17-pdr M10 ‘Achilles’ from January 1946. They were used by the 7th Anti-Tank Regiment, Royal New Zealand Artillery, in Italy.

The 3-inch M10 was introduced in June 1944 according to this (referenced) website:

http://modelingmadness.com/reviews/m.../us/simm10.htm

It appears to have been in use by July 1944 according to the photos on these webpages:

http://www.san-casciano.com/NZ-advance.htm

http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/te...2Ita-c5-2.html

The New Zealanders used the 3-inch M10 until the end of the war – as did the British in Italy. It was largely phased out of use in NW Europe by December 1944 and replaced with 17-pdr M10s. The Italian Front was the poor relation and not all 3-inch M10s were replaced by wars end.

The book British Tank Destroyer Achilles 17-pdr M10 SP by Wojciech J. Gawrych says that New Zealanders also used 17-pdr M10s in Italy during the war. It does not specify when they were delivered though. However, it does provide a couple of photos of a NZ 17-pdr M10 (C Troop, 32nd Battery, 7th Anti-Tank Regt.) taken south of Trieste in April 1945:



British and Polish Anti-Tank Regts in Italy started to receive 17-pdr M10s from September 1944 – whenever they were taken out of the line for recuperation and re-equipping. The New Zealanders may also have started to receive them during the Autumn.

Background Sources:

M10 and M36 Tank Destroyers 1942-53 (pub. 2002) by Steven J. Zaloga
British Tank Destroyer Achilles 17-pdr M10 SP (pub. 2007) by Wojciech J. Gawrych

[DRG]

Now on the list..

Don

[DRG]

Dig around and see what you come up with for the Archer

Don

[redcoat2]

Originally Posted by DRG

Dig around and see what you come up with for the Archer

Do you want me to look for a NZ Archer or an Aussie or NZ Archer?

[Cross]

Originally Posted by redcoat2

British and Polish Anti-Tank Regts in Italy started to receive 17-pdr M10s from September 1944 – whenever they were taken out of the line for recuperation and re-equipping.

As SP doesn't discriminate between theatres - as far as availability is concerned - I should mention that British units in France had the 17Pdr M10 Achilles in time for D-Day. But they were in short supply.

Only 124 had been converted to 17Pdr by D-day. When they were lost, they were often replaced by the more abundant 3in M10 'Wolverine' to the dismay of the crews.

Photo of Achilles in June 44:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27840099@N02/3001613059/


Cross

[DRG]

Originally Posted by redcoat2

Do you want me to look for a NZ Archer or an Aussie or NZ Archer?

Yes, just to confirm they were in use and if yes, when

Don

[redcoat2]

Originally Posted by Cross

As SP doesn't discriminate between theatres - as far as availability is concerned - I should mention that British units in France had the 17Pdr M10 Achilles in time for D-Day. But they were in short supply.

I am in no way implying that the availability date for the British 17-pdr M10 is incorrect. The first 17-pdr M10s were delivered to units earmarked for Normandy in May 1944. I’m only looking at the availability of the NZ M10. If the British in Italy were starting to get 17-pdr M10s from September then it is possible that the New Zealanders – who were also in Italy - were getting them at around the same time

The conversion of the M10 to the 17-pdr M10 was quite slow at first because the work was originally undertaken at only one Royal Ordnance factory in Woolwich. Conversion rates increased in September 1944 after other RO factories in Ellesmere Port and Nottingham joined the effort. 430 M10s had been converted by the end of September and 708 by the end of November.

[redcoat2]

Originally Posted by DRG

Yes, just to confirm they were in use and if yes, when

Don

One of my local libraries has a book about NZ armour in Italy. I'll pick it up later. I'm not sure whether I can help with the Aussies.

[redcoat2]

I’ve had a look through Jeffrey Plowman’s book about the NZ 2nd Division in Italy. I’m 99% certain that the New Zealanders didn’t use the Archer there. As for the Australians, I don’t have any books about their armour as such. I don’t think they had the Archer though. AFAIK they didn’t have any ground units in Europe at the time the Archer was used – and I don’t think they or the New Zealanders would have used it in the SW Pacific. I had a quick look at some Australian websites and I couldn’t find anything. Perhaps someone else knows more?

The Plowman book confirms that the 7th Anti-tank Regiment received 3-inch M10s in June 1944 and used them in combat in July. It also uses the photos of a NZ 17-pdr M10 that I posted above. Unfortunately it does not say when the 17-pdr M10s were introduced. It might have been October 1944 because the Regiment was reorganised at that time. This diagram shows a Battery sometime after the reorganisation.



The M10s and towed 17-pdrs were in Troops of four guns. The diagram seems to show a 17-pdr M10 (gun C2) with three 3-inch M10s.

When I was looking through the armoured units in the book I noticed that the New Zealanders used Shermans up-gunned with 17-pdrs. I would therefore like to suggest a couple more possible updates for the New Zealand OOB: (1) bring forward the availability start date for the VC Firefly (spob15/ Unit 025) and (2) add the Sherman Hybrid IC (spob07/ Unit 302).

The Plowman book says that the VC Firefly was “first received around October 1944.” They were originally issued to Squadron HQs. The book also says that the Sherman Hybrid IC was used before the VC Firefly “late in 1944” - without being more specific.

[DRG]

On the list..........