who is playing vs elite ai?

francoisD · #1 October 13th, 2009, 08:04 AM

hi

i am the guy who wants to play with large german cores (15000 pts) and who noticed that the end game would be unbalanced because the ai does not know how to build large army (40000 pts when i defend for example)

somebody suggested to play vs elite ai troops (that cost more). i just want to know who is playing versus such troops and what are their comments

because i find that the game is pretty difficult now, much much more than with 70 exp ai troops!

for example at 120+exp, they never surrender, an army rout never occurs (at 90+ exp i guess)

even a single crew of a wreck can kill at least a few of your infantry troops if you get close!!!

i cannot use any aircraft any longer because they are destroyed at once,

and i do not takl about their artillery that is able to change their target in a turn or so

playing vs elite troops is really devastating.

but i have to admit it is more funny too! you really have to think about what you plan and expect from the ai, because the ai will never miss you

Imp · #2 October 13th, 2009, 12:38 PM

Just my view but you would be better of selling your units & buying new ones to keep experience sensible, If you want a rational for this your elite guys are transfered to fight beside raw recruits & keep them alive. Still want an advantage keep your Company Leaders.
You can start with some of your army as conscripts & change them to regular when they reach 70 or so if desired.
You cant buy 100 exp units in the game let alone higher as in reality they dont exist, nor is the game really set up for them as they become super human.
If however you want to explore the game engine go ahead

francoisD · #3 October 14th, 2009, 03:56 AM

what happens is the reverse: the ai uses 120exp troops, and currently my army is based on lower and mixed exp troops, ranging from 70 for new recruits, to something close to 100-110 for the best troops, but they are rare

i have to use this tactic so that the ai, when attacking me, can buy the correct army when i am defending with a 10-12000 pts army (otherwise its army is short on the points, and the battle is unfair)

Imp · #4 October 14th, 2009, 04:34 AM

Okay see your problem & good you are trying to balance it best of luck. The trouble you have is the AI tries to buy reasonably realisticly, it still probably buys more armour than it should but this was WW2 & vehicles were not that common. Certainly late war Germany had a big shortage not to mention fuel to run them. Bumping into the remains of more than a couple of Tank Co was probably rare & why the likes of the Sherman was adequate just, probably used more vs infantry than armour as it was really mainly an infantry war.

DRG · #5 October 14th, 2009, 01:14 PM

The other solution is to NOT BUILD 15,000 POINT GERMAN CORES 7000-8000 points should be the max for a WW2 core AND support. If people keep complaining the game is broken becasue they set out to break it we WILL fix it so they cannot exceed the game limits.

Yes, increasing the AI's experience levels can help but that solution is better suited to a highly experienced player once the AI side starts to average about 95 or so. We may build something like this into the game to help keep the AI side equal in some way when players start to bump into the limit and the AI cannot buy enough forces at standard experience levels but it's only a matter of time when someone complains the AI side is populated with supersoldiers and we find out they've been trying to defend with 20,000 points and the AI's up to 120 experience and they've only been playing the game a week.

Don

Imp · #6 October 14th, 2009, 04:49 PM

Whatever you do someone will moan so is it worth messing with, restrict buy points & people will say I am sure it could handle more. Probably easist to just leave it & let people do there thing, in an open ended system like this someone will always take it to the limit & beyond or question the why.
My 2 peneth if exp changed is why do all that research on weapons & OOBs to man them with super soldiers & make it very much a game. I am sure you know my view on LC exp gain by now if anything slower progresion or a cap on max limit would make more sense to me keeping them within the range the game works well in. You strive very hard to make it realistic within the confines of the game engine & its by far the best game of its type in my view but super soldiers undermines the whole system.
Just my own view fully realise it is your game & your call.

francoisD · #7 October 15th, 2009, 06:34 AM

hi drg

i was not complaining

you missed this sentence: but i have to admit it is more funny too!

yes the game is much more difficult, but much more funny too. you really have to think about what to do

i am plyaing this game for 2 years now, and if it true that i never played a pbem game, it is also true that i am not a true beginner...

personally i would not go back to 70exp troops, the game would be boring and too easy
the only thing i really regret are the aircrafts i cannot use anymore, even tanks with aamg abilities can shot down them...

i posted this thread just to know who was using elite troops for the ai, to share our thoughts...

if you never tried such battles, try this as soon as possible, you will get a big crush on your head...

DRG · #8 October 15th, 2009, 07:41 AM

I know people like big battles. That's why we allow the max number of points per side the way we do. If someone wants to fight King Tigers vs IS-III's they can fill the map with them and go at it in a meeting engagement. Campaigns are another matter and we have had other complaints about the AI limit but the AI limit isn't artificial. It's the max number we can use. To keep the game fair players need to keep their cores from getting too big .

Don

francoisD · #9 October 15th, 2009, 08:41 AM

when you plan big battles, you reduce any randomness in it, because individual and highly randomn fights add to each other while filtering any unlikely fights.

you can be very lucky in one area, but very unlucky in another one. so overall the outcome of a battle is the result of you skills only.

this is why i prefer big battles. with smaller one, the result of a battle can change dramatically with the result of one dice...

big battles have the serious drawback of being lenghtier too...

currently i play the germans in 1942, june, vs the russians... a single battle is played in several weeks...

i have to add that i am now a better player than before...

my core is already worth 9000 pts. it will grow further when i will upgrade my tanks, plus the exp of all the troops. indeed you do not need uber units to reach 10000-15000 pts armies, if you buy 200 units plus the raising exp...this is why i need to play vs an elite ai.

when i will have finished the campaign i will redo many individual battles with the generator to allow the ai to have monstruous armies. indeed i ve read somewhere that the germans fought at 1:5 odd vs the russians in 1945.

i have computed that i will be able to define a slightly reduced army worth 10000 pts (at 90 exp), and i plan to buy the ai armies worth 65000 pts just to see what happens

something like 30 panthers vs 200 elite kv85

do not know what will happen, but this will be a real challenge, for sure...

anyway do not hesitate to play vs elite ai, the game really changes

Imp · #10 October 15th, 2009, 11:27 AM

Quote:

when you plan big battles, you reduce any randomness in it, because individual and highly randomn fights add to each other while filtering any unlikely fights.

This is why you like high exp to all the time spent creating randomness goes as units pass all there roles. We are all diffrent & for me its this built in randomness that quite possibly makes the game. They should be able to pull it off but instead I am going Oh **** what to do now or laughing as it all goes inexplicably wrong.
With high exp guys you virtualy know how they will perform with units in the normal range the game has many more risk vs reward choices when you are unsure & these make the game to for me.