Score

Gnoman · #1 February 24th, 2010, 02:48 AM

I just finished a very nice battle against Iran in September, 1970. What I don't understand is how a victory of annihilation can be scored as a "marginal victory." I can understand that a Mag'ach 6 (playing as israel) is worth a lot more than a M-4 Sherman, but at a 127:1 kill/loss ratio, I wouldn't expect that to matter. The three tanks, a few APCs, and about a dozen infantry platoons (all routed) that they had left were significantly greater than my losses. (One tank, two APCS, a flak gun, and oneor two infantrymen, 24 men total.)

The final score was 7900+ to 1100ish. I don't see how they scored that many points.

Just in case anyone's confused, I'm not ranting. I'm just trying to understand how the scoring works.

Mobhack · #2 February 24th, 2010, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gnoman

I just finished a very nice battle against Iran in September, 1970. What I don't understand is how a victory of annihilation can be scored as a "marginal victory." I can understand that a Mag'ach 6 (playing as israel) is worth a lot more than a M-4 Sherman, but at a 127:1 kill/loss ratio, I wouldn't expect that to matter. The three tanks, a few APCs, and about a dozen infantry platoons (all routed) that they had left were significantly greater than my losses. (One tank, two APCS, a flak gun, and oneor two infantrymen, 24 men total.)

The final score was 7900+ to 1100ish. I don't see how they scored that many points.

Just in case anyone's confused, I'm not ranting. I'm just trying to understand how the scoring works.

You did not quite achieve the 8:1 margin required for a decisive victory. Hence, just a normal win (2:1 <===> 7.99:1).

I would guess that you lost just one 'big-ticket' item too many. (One Magach 6 at 175 (80 exp), means you need ~8x175=1400 to even up the score on that loss if looking for the decisive - or about 10 Iranian M60A1s at that date)

Cheers
Andy

Gnoman · #3 February 24th, 2010, 11:03 PM

So you need to kill a couple of dozen M4 Shermans (they didn't have any -60s, and only about 6 -48s) to offset ONE Mag'ach? I suppose that makes some sense considering how helpless they were, but it's still a surprise.

My losses for the battle (I checked) were

1 Mag'ach-6A
1 20-MM SPAA
3 F0 Jeeps
2 OT-64 APC

They lost 127 tanks, mostly M4s, but with a few M-24s and M-48s, along with a similar number of APCs of various types.

Mobhack · #4 February 25th, 2010, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gnoman

So you need to kill a couple of dozen M4 Shermans (they didn't have any -60s, and only about 6 -48s) to offset ONE Mag'ach? I suppose that makes some sense considering how helpless they were, but it's still a surprise.

My losses for the battle (I checked) were

1 Mag'ach-6A
1 20-MM SPAA
3 F0 Jeeps
2 OT-64 APC

They lost 127 tanks, mostly M4s, but with a few M-24s and M-48s, along with a similar number of APCs of various types.

For a decisive victory, if you lose something then you require to offset it by 8 times its points value, 2 times for a marginal.

Your FO jeeps cost 86 points each, for example. Arty observers are expensive items!.

You do not mention any infantry losses or damaged units on your side (e.g a surviving tank with 20 damage points still needs 8*20 to offset for decisive). Damage points do count, as do any objective hexes.

Your list of losses above is only partial - since it is worth about 500 points, and you mention that the enemy had scored 1100. (Unless you had set (or gained in a campaign) troop experience at very high levels above the default settings - e.g. a Magach 6A at 120 EXP jumps to 242 points from 178 at the basic 80 EXP for Israel at 1970).

An Iranian M4 costs only about 50 points, and M24 about 48 at regular EXP/MOR settings - it would be lower if you (or the scenario designer if this was one) had altered the Iranians to less than default experience of course.

Cheers
Andy

Gnoman · #5 February 25th, 2010, 10:48 PM

I also had one jeep and one tank damaged. my infantry played no part in the battle, but I may have taken a hit or two from artillery (I lost 24 men, total). I didn't realize just how big the value gap between the Iranian and Israeli units that were used was. I also just realised that I l\allowed the enemy to keep most of the victory flags, because my artillery didn't shatter his lines until turn 19, and it was a 21 turn battle. everything makes sense now, thanks.