Rifle amo HE and AP Penetration

[leonardus]

Hi again,

So, if no replay log, no chance to evidence the marvel what instantly appear (and dissapear)from the bottom line, under the form of asterics ! Let's figure out what's I'm talking about:
the main reason for what I was moving from SPWAW to SPWW2 after years of playing is a much better battle accuracy. And that in many ways. One is the Small Amo HE Penetration positive results !!!
Because I was intrigued by the Non penetrating messages from many rifle sized amo vs. armored target (with distinct sound) I suspected much more in the game routines. So, I maked a test. Because the OOB's offered only HE amo for an 7.62 mm TMG, I used the editor and gave only AP amo's ! And with that I started a custom made scenario and fired hundreds of times upon an armored tarhet with armor=1. And, I left AP penetration=0. After only a few shots the marvel TAKE PLACE !!! Huray ! Huray ! A 2 asterics indicated damage and indeed the crew was lowered by 1 on target. So, it's possible like in reality was/is. Always, are weaker spots, opened slits, etc and even the amo didn't have the power to penetrate a 1 still damage occurs. Off course, very rare, but occurs. And after I wanted to repeat that to be sure I'm not seeing ghosts. But, now, after 80 or 90 shots, one resulted in an asterics. OK. It's REAL.
Now, I'm wandering if somebody ''managed'' to have such results with rifle HE amo. I am not disposed to test another hundreds of shots. I suspected YES. Because it's real too. So, combat routines details were not dissapointed me at all by now.
Only one question: can somebody to point the percentage of this kind of shots ?

L.

[leonardus]

So, noone ever encountered a damage from HE=0 penetration buletts ?

L.

[gabeeg]

Oh yeah, I have had machine guns damage armored vehicles before. I do not recall if they were pen 1 or pen 0 though... It happens occasionally...usually when you least want it to in a PBEM game

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

HE rounds will sometimes penetrate light armor, for example, .50 cal rounds will bother things with armor 1 or 2, grenades will do the same, but usually have better results due to warhead size, so don't hesitate to machinegun down those pesky apcs, direct fire mortars and other HE guns will do it as well, You will also note the "weak spot" hit thing, that is a very nice feature, as it will grant you a bonus to the penetration value, this is especially useful for ATR and light guns.

[Cross]

Armour can sustain damage from 0 HE if it has an open top.

[leonardus]

Originally Posted by Cross

Armour can sustain damage from 0 HE if it has an open top.

Yes, all af this are obvious. But I strongly questioned for HE=0 penetration, not ATR, not 12,5 mm (which obvious have HE=1), not open top,not light guns, etc just plain damage from ordinary bullet warsized=1 !!
Just read my thread for what I was done.

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

you probably had the tank toughness reduced, if it's too low, pistol rounds will penetrate tanks.

[leonardus]

Originally Posted by iCaMpWiThAWP

you probably had the tank toughness reduced, if it's too low, pistol rounds will penetrate tanks.

No, I hadn't.

[leonardus]

Originally Posted by gabeeg

Oh yeah, I have had machine guns damage armored vehicles before. I do not recall if they were pen 1 or pen 0 though... It happens occasionally...usually when you least want it to in a PBEM game

And I forget where I read that maximum penetration is extented with the following formula:
extrapenetration=HE penetration + Warhead size.
So, if we had HE=2, warhead=3, and armor=4, in some cases (I don't know the percentage) we get damage, despite the fact that normally the penetration is lower than the armor value.
So, with the same principle, for the rifle ammo (for example) HE=0, Warhead size=1, we must have a penetration of 1 !!! in some circumstances. Again, I don't know the odds. Maybe is usefull somebody from the developers to state that.

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

Very, very, VERY low. i never had a 0 pen rifle penetrate anything, only heavy rifles and machineguns