Is it time for...

Wyke · #1 February 24th, 2013, 06:57 AM

Son of Steel Panthers?

I have been playing this game(In all of it's different incarnations) on and off for almost 20 years now, and while it may get ignored now and then (for almost 3 years this last time) I still love it as much as I always did when it was first released. The only other game that has shared computer space with SP for the same amount of time is Civilization. (I'm not a 100% fussed on Civ V, so still tend to play a lot of Civ IV)

But the fact of the matter is. Where as Civilization has in effect been recreated periodically, both WinSPWW2/MBT and the 'other'

version by Matrix Games are still basically the original games that they are based on.

So is it time for somebody to take that step, to finally retire the whole SP game and roll out a brand spanking new, all singing, all dancing game that captures the spirit of the original game, but can take much better advantage of today's computers. And that is not just in the prettiness stakes but with greater levels of realism (Again, I am talking about doing away with silly things like Company Commanders not being able to access their own embedded mortars because they don't have the appropriate artillery skills)

I would love to be able to have to start shelling out my hard earned pennies to pay for a whole new SP like game. However, I guess it all boils down to how many others would be willing to support this by shelling out too.

DRG · #2 February 24th, 2013, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyke

.........I am talking about doing away with silly things like Company Commanders not being able to access their own embedded mortars because they don't have the appropriate artillery skills)

The problem with SP newbies is they don't have the long term experience to compare what we have now and the game in the past

The problem with experienced players is they get mixed up with what happened in the past or with another version of the game we had absolutely had nothing to do with ( Beyond proving that it could be done )

When I load up our game and buy a company with embedded mortars the company commander can access it just fine so I'd really like you to provide a save game example that proves your point and we would be happy to look at it

Don

Wyke · #3 February 24th, 2013, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRG

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyke

.........I am talking about doing away with silly things like Company Commanders not being able to access their own embedded mortars because they don't have the appropriate artillery skills)

The problem with SP newbies is they don't have the long term experience to compare what we have now and the game in the past

The problem with experienced players is they get mixed up with what happened in the past or with another version of the game we had absolutely had nothing to do with ( Beyond proving that it could be done )

When I load up our game and buy a company with embedded mortars the company commander can access it just fine so I'd really like you to provide a save game example that proves your point and we would be happy to look at it

Don

Hi Don

sorry I can't provide a saved game as I have over written it. However, I noticed it while playing scenario '003 Monastery Hill' as the Italians if that is of any help to you.

While I have your 'ear' Don. (That should be eye's I guess) I hope that I did not come across as being over critical of your work. I am not I love it, it's the best War Game for me by far, I was just chipping my pennies worth in to say that I for one would love to pay money for a new game that captures the spirit of Steel Panthers

DRG · #4 February 24th, 2013, 04:58 PM

If the "problem" is found in a scenario it could be that the designer WANTED it that way but 'Monastery Hill' is ancient, has been in the game since around early 2001 and it's quite possible it could be broken OR it could be the mortars are simply out of contact . I will investigate but the GAME does not cut Coy commanders off from their mortars even if his arty command is low

When I read this my first reaction was WTF is he talking about so I tested it in a generated battle and the Coy commander and full control over the mortars directly under his command.

If you are going to complain about "silly" things that happen in the game ( especially in the context of.. "we need a new game because of these silly things that happen"....) please be prepared to back it up with a save game and if it's a legitimate "bug" it will be corrected.

Don

Ts4EVER · #5 February 24th, 2013, 08:10 PM

A new steel panthers game? I think you might be over estimating the demand for realistic turn based strategy games. Like Civ5 sp would probably have to move into the third dimension, which makes content creation a lot harder and costly. Then there would be competition with Close Combat and Combat Mission in an already small market niche.

void1984 · #6 February 25th, 2013, 07:47 AM

2D representation is fine. (I even like NATO counters). Close Combat and Combat Mission are not competitors, rather (the unsuccessful) Point of Attack 2 or Battles from the Bulge, and they both use 2D engines just fine.

AMX · #7 February 25th, 2013, 08:15 AM

I took a quick look at scenario 003 - the Greek company commanders have no radio.
Also, the "embedded" mortars are deployed far away from their respective companies, in a sort of pseudo-battery near A0 - almost guaranteed to be out of contact.

DRG · #8 February 25th, 2013, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMX

I took a quick look at scenario 003 - the Greek company commanders have no radio.
Also, the "embedded" mortars are deployed far away from their respective companies, in a sort of pseudo-battery near A0 - almost guaranteed to be out of contact.

It's the Italians that are the issue here not the Greek defenders. That said this scenario was built before the radio contact-out of radio contact code.

I've loaded it a couple of times and sometimes the embedded mortars are in radio contact and sometime not and when they are out of contact they are over 30 hexes away from the commander. That's not a "bug" or "silly" that's just the game code representing that when the radios fail 1500 metres is too far for the commander to shout orders to his mortar crews so you don't get to plot fire with them.

Play that sceanrio long enough and the mortars come in and out of contact and even with that what is represented is far more communication that was available to Italian commanders in 1941 and it's possible that had the scenario been built more recently the scenario designer may have set up the companys differently.........or not. Losing contact with your mortars under those circumstances is hardly un-realistic. However, I have tweaked the scenario so the Itailian commanders have radios. That won't stop the mortars from going out of contact but it will ensure the commander has a radio.

That all said. The "problem" with this sceanrio isn't "silly things like Company Commanders not being able to access their own embedded mortars because they don't have the appropriate artillery skills" at all......not being able to contact the mortars has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the commander having "appropriate artillery skills".... the loss of contact is the result of us putting in more realistic radio contact code.

Don

AMX · #9 February 25th, 2013, 09:03 AM

Agh, I got the nationalities backwards despite double-checking

I am embarrassed and need more coffee

georgesedlak · #10 February 26th, 2013, 02:00 AM

This reminds me of Avalon Hill's "Squad Leader", great game, but they just had to upgrade it to a newer, more realistic and prettier version and ruined the game. I get a headache just thinking of that rule book.

How much "realism" do you want before the game becomes "not fun". All games are abstractions to a degree, but if they simulate real world problems and solutions well, then they are satisfying and fun.

SP in our opinion is satisfying and fun, and probably will be long after the other games are gone and forgotten.