Something Odd

[Warnevada]

I've attached two screen prints, one by the Polish player and one by the German player of the same area of the map. On the Polish screen print, entrenchments are shown in several hexes; on the German screen print these entrenchments do not appear despite there being a German unit in one of the hexes.

In other battles entrenchments could be reused by either side, but in this one it appears they do not exist for the German.

Is this normal, or some kind of bug? Save file(s) available if needed.

[scorpio_rocks]

Seems strange indeed!

Does the german unit (if it has been stationary for a turn) show to him as being dug in? (despite not seeing the entrenchment)

My guess is the devs may well need a game save.

[DRG]

I assume by " entrenchment" you mean the sand bagged emplacements ?? If yes can the player who cannot see them place them on a map manually ?

[Warnevada]

The German unit sitting in the hex is not shown as dug in although it's been there for more than one turn.

I'm not clear what's meant by "place them on a map manually." This is a scenario being played via email. I'm not aware entrenchments can be placed on a map once a scenario is in progress.

[DRG]

I meant if you go to the editor do they show up ? One explanation I have to eliminate as a possibility is that SHP file with those Icons has gone missing from your machine

[Warnevada]

The sandbag entrenchments appear elsewhere, including the same map, so it doesn't appear that a file is missing.

I've attached a Save for you to examine.

[Mobhack]

Which scenario is this one?

I moved a panzer 1 to a vehicle entrenchment on the hill, and it became dug-in after a turn or so.

I also moved a scout car in the rear to one of the (invisible) entrenchments, and it too became dug-in in that hez, but no visible entrenchment appears.

I also moved a motorcycle to one of those invisible sandbag hexes and left it a couple of turns - but no such dice. But these invisible hexes are vehicle entrenchments, and a motorcycle is an infantry class.

Usually, when a unit that has moved and was originally entrenched becomes visible, then its entrenchment pops into view as well. But SP has always been a little bit spotty about this. An entrenchment is an attribute of the entrenched unit, not a separate entity.And sometimes strange things happen if a vehicle owns an unspotted entrenchment but is killed by say indirect fire - the vehicle wreck can be shown and the dead unit labelled as dug-in without the entrenchment being shown. Or a rifle element ditto, and you don't see this, but later on in fighting one of your infantry might suddenly become dug-in unexpectedly. And sometimes a unit in an entrenchment becomes invisible again (LOS lost or something) - the unit is removed from the map, but the entrenchment remains.

The key point is that it's the detection of the original occupant that determines the placing into view of the entrenchment icon for it for the opposing player, even if that entrenchment was a mile in the rear where the unit started its march from.

I could not see any vehicles (or guns, mortars or other circular sandbag pit users) that originally owned these hexes, though.
- they could be "phantom" entrenchments, if the scenario designer deleted the vehicles and forgot to clear up (Hit E key)
- The scenario designer may have placed vehicles there, then physically moved them, and not pressed the E key
- The scenario designer change the unit type (say to off map arty)
- Or perhaps they are there for some reinforcement vehicles which will come in later on at these spots as a big surprise to Jerry!.

That's why it would be nice to know exactly which scenario it was, if its a stock one, and so determine what was in those sandbag positions at the start (if anything).

[Warnevada]

It's scenario 447.

My opponent said that the stuff, mostly transport, that was in the entrenchments was moved off map.

I must say it strikes me as strange that entrenchments are an attribute of a unit, which can move, and not the hex which can't.

Although the sandbags are intended to protect vehicles, shouldn't infantry also get defensive benefits?

[Mobhack]

Infantry use the trench symbol, vehicles and guns, sandbags. In the SP universe one cannot use the other's emplacement type.

And since the showing of the entrenchments is based on the owning element being spotted, then as you wont see the retreated kit then you wont see the entrenchment.