Question: Soviet infantry bt vs. infantry/tanks

[Revenant]

Hi,

I am going to try soviet infantry battalion in a long war campaign. So far I have:

2x Infantry+ coy
Engineer coy
AO
Scouts
2xsniper
BT tank coy
3x 81 mortar platoon (6units)
2x MG platoon (4units)
3x AT platoon (6units)
off board 76 mm battery

around 2000 pts, 80x80 hexes

So far I have one battle behind me against Polish.

Now, I remember how hard it was for me to fight against Finland when I tried this campaign several years ago.

I read an excellent article by Mobhack how to fight Finns using an infantry/artillery combo. My question is just how much artillery I need for this kind of tactics using force posted above.

The second issue is anti tank ability of my force. In previous campaign, I used T34/76 tanks extensively to combat enemy tanks. I just want to use AT guns somehow, if possible. But I found it very difficult, especially in offensive missions (and meeting engagement too) as better AT guns are immovable and I have to use transports to move them, which is not very tactically sound. And I have experience that AI usually shell my stationary guns with artillery when fighting defensive missions, so they are not very usefull there too. So is the only viable possiblity to change them to SP guns/tanks later on?

Any advice welcome

[Imp]

Soviets early war anti tank capability is not good.

Lack of experience is a big problem generally.
Infantry has no AT capability just grenades, expect to see a lot of tank panic if assault.
Have to think about your artillery as its slow to react, this also makes placing smoke to cover moving AT guns hard.
Your AT weapons to hit is not the best & you don't get many shots to improve your chances.

You do get probably the most potent movable ATG though.

Your engineers can at least take on armor if they don't panic & also are your fast smoke screen for doing things undetected as they normally have a decent amount of it.

Its hard I seem to spend as much time falling back as going forward trying to avoid arty & draw them into mine.

Using just or mainly ATGs is hard slows the game down especially if assaulting but can be very effective if micro manage a bit.
Turn down ranges let them stroll in pound the eyes (infantry) then open up with hopefully 4-6 ATGs firing from different angles for a bit of carnage.

Lack of mobility does mean a much higher chance of things going very wrong because changing the plan takes time.

Mid war your experience improves & given the right terrain the infantry are capable of taking on tanks, not the best AT weaponry but it will do the job.

[Wiking]

You've certainly set yourself a tough row to hoe! Like Imp said, your lack of experience will make things harder than it would be even as the Germans or Japanese. The engineers in particular are somewhat lightly equipped at the start of the war, and their poor morale doesn't help either. I do think that playing a purely infantry force in WINSP is difficult prior to the advent of launchers, but it is doable if you really want the challenge. Most of what Imp said is sound advice but I'd add the following:

Your BT's can handle anything any other country out there except France maybe can throw at it. They have essentially no armor for all practical purposes, but their incredible cross country ability and speed coupled with a fairly good 45mm gun means you can position them almost like self-propelled anti-tank guns if you're clever about it. The main thing to remember is that with their low experience, they'll do better if they get op-fire instead of trying to have them shoot on the move. Try to position them and then let the enemy come to you.

[Revenant]

So, first battle against Finland and I gave them bloody nose. It was only a marginal victory though, even as I occupied all objectives and subsequently routed entire enemy force. It was because I bought two batteries of heavy mortars as support and got some kind of penalty to my victory score.

My losses were fairly low, only two tanks and one engineer unit. Counting whole units of course.

I changed "normal" engineers - those without satchels and FT - into para enginners, because the normal ones do not have heavy equipment and paras have satchels and SMGs which proved useful.

Now just to get right ratio of artillery in my force to get rid of that penalty.

Concerning AT guns, I will probably disband them later and buy SP variant as it will really be a pain to use them exclusively.

[Wiking]

That artillery penalty is so that the player doesn't just flatten the map every time. Artillery really is the big decider a lot of the time, but it comes at a considerable cost. Also most infantry battalions, even in the Soviet army, don't have the luxury of calling in unlimited artillery barring special operations.

Be warned that the early SP-AT the Soviets get is very slow albeit potent. You won't see proper SP-AT until 1943 at the earliest, and even then the Germans have the edge for a long while. I would at least allow yourself a pair of T-35's or T-28's that you can upgrade into a pair of KV-1's later on. That's a pretty fair allotment of heavy armor considering the size of your force and is far from invincible. Their slow speed also means that when you commit them, they are pretty much stuck and can't rapidly redeploy across the map to help another sector.

Makes for a more interesting operational challenge

[Griefbringer]

If you feel challenged on the AT weapons, keep in mind that your force is already better stocked than an actual historical Red Army rifle battalion. The best AT armament in such battalion was a platoon of two AT guns (usually 45 mm), though in 1942 this was supplemented with a platoon of around 9 AT rifles. The rifle companies had to content themselves with Molotov cocktails and other close range weapons if they wanted to repel the Fascist panzers.

The main focus of armament was on anti-infantry weapons: SMGs, rifles, DP LMGs, Maxim MGs and mortars (50 and 82 mm varieties).

Granted, there was more (and heavier) anti-tank weapons higher up the command chain. At the regimental level, anti-tank gun battery and anti-tank rifle company could be found, while at the divisional level there would be a mixed anti-tank battalion. Plus the 76.2 mm guns of the divisional artillery could be used for anti-tank work in a pinch. Not to mention that there were also independent anti-tank formations available at even higher level.

[Revenant]

I went throught the Winter war with good results. At the end I tried three experimental KV1 tanks and did well, because I met there three captured T35 tanks against me

My successes were mainly because of two things: good use of artillery and combination of infantry and light tanks on one hex in contact with the enemy.

So, war with Germany finally. Two battles so far. First one was surprisingly an assault which was easy, but then defense...

Oh my crap, I created defensive line protected by minefield and the slaughter was immense. There were at least 45 enemy tanks and APCs destroyed, maybe even more ! The wast majority was destroyed in minefields and a few destroyed by my KV1 tanks. 45 mm guns were able to kill only APCS and Pz I, certainly not waves of those Pz III E+F !

Now I am going to change all my towed guns to 57 mm, to be able to fight tanks.

Two questions:

1) Any suggestions how to fight big number of infantry in defend scenarios? I remember playing similar campaign some time ago and I was surprised by waves of german infantry in Stalingrad battle. I was not able to stop them. Mines look like good solution how to stop tanks, but what about infantry? And whats your opinion on points in assault/defense scenarios generally? By using force I met in previous battle, human player would mop the floor with me, as computer was not able to go around the minefield and went straight into it.

2) Artillery. So far I am using mortars and heavy mortars because they are cheap and I get big coverage of hexes in a small package and offboard artillery for counterfire. Any suggestions how to use 76 mm infantry guns or something even bigger?