Some bugs

[Kiwikkiwik]

Hello I hope this post finds you well.
These are some errors/bugs I found
Soviet weapon 18 45mm obr.32/38 AP penetration goes from 5 to 3 at 600 metres. ie It has no 4 pens values.
German weapon 88 PzB 39 ATR best AP goes from goes from 1 to 2 at 500m and best sabot goes from 1 to 2 at 400m.
Soviet tankette unit 302/339 T-27 cannot fire at infantry in the same hex it is in. Also when you fire at infantry in the same hex with unit 593 OT-27 and use W select and choose 4 for the MG the tank fires the Flame (slot 1) instead of the MG.
Italian SMV unit 591/712 SMV L.40 47L32 When you target infantry in the same hex the SMV is in and W select 4 for 47 cannon , the SMW fires the MG (slot 3) instead, or sometimes fires the MG and the 47mm cannon.
German weapons 230/231 FJg PAW 7.5cm and 10.5cm have the wrong name. Leichtgeschutz or LG should replace PAW. PAW refers to another weapon 8cm PanzerAbwehrWerfer 600 which doesnt appear to be in the game.
Hungarian weapon 247 210mm 40M N.Tck and German weapon 107 21cm Mrs 18 have ranges of 215 and 207 respectively as they are the same gun. One of these ranges is probably wrong
British unit 610 M-H II 47mm. As can be seen in the picture Marmon-Harrington 47mm has a sheild not a turret. turret side and top values should be 0 not 1, Turret front should be 1 not 2.
Japanese Unit Type 92 Chiyoda and unit 298 Type 91 So-Mo can carry 6 troops but the game treats these troops as being carried on top of the vehicle instead of inside it behind its armour. The new icons for this unit look real good. German 251/21 seems to have the same problem.
Italian 33/35 flame tanks dont shoot flame to protect themslves against attack from AP firing tanks next to them but will fire at infantry.
Italian unit 338 Torretta Carro should be 6 5 4 2 as in the units the turret comes from, 349 359 360, not 2,1,1 and 1. The Unit has the L33 gun but the picture appears to be the L18 gun instead, very likely L33 was mostly kept on the tanks and the L18 was emplaced.

[Mobhack]

Most of these are data niggles, not bugs and that should be in the TO&E forum, so I will be moving this mish-mash smorgasboard of ramblings there. But then again, you have been advised not to post "War and Peace" epics before...

Firing weapons at range 0 in the same hex has always been bugged - because the original game did not let you enter the same hex as the enemy. So several core routines are highly confusd by range <1, always have been since SP1 days. Expect weird things in same-hex combat - there is no way that all the relevant subroutines will ever be fixed, and you can blame SSI for deciding to allow units to occupy the same hex as enemy in the 1990s. If in the same hex - press F to fire and it will decide by itself, usually.

You seem to be confused about the APcalc programme - this shows the best result of a sample of 1000 shells per cell. It will be different if you try it again, its the best shot of 1000 runs for each range cell and thus is quite likely to vary. Penetration routines use these things called "random numbers", after all!.

Passengers - if the base class is not an APC, then the passengers will not be protected. Have a look at what the class is - if it is some sort of tank or SPG that is used, then the passengers will fall of as per any other tank or AFV that is not an APC. Chiyoda - is an armoured car, which does not protect as is so-mo.

Once again, you are posting a laundry list of observations - next time if you have an error report, please
- post it in the correct forum (ie TO&E)
- Post according to the OOB error reporting guidelines in that forum, in particular:

Do NOT mix nations in one error report. If you have some points to make about Finland and some for the USMC, post each in its own separate message thread. (Exceptions might be where you might be comparing the same tank across several OOBS).

[Imp]

Soviet tankette unit 302/339 T-27 cannot fire at infantry in the same hex it is in. Also when you fire at infantry in the same hex with unit 593 OT-27 and use W select and choose 4 for the MG the tank fires the Flame (slot 1) instead of the MG.

As I use these I can tell you why they behave that way & that its correct.
Weapon 4 is a BMG so it cannot be used against a unit in the same hex as its assumed the unit has managed to avoid its covered arc.
Using W to fire weapon 4 causes weapon 1 to fire if the BMG cannot fire at the target due to facing.

German weapon 88 PzB 39 ATR

Use this often to works exactly as you would expect, max effective range 300m best used at half that. You need a lucky shot to cause any damage above that range.

[Mobhack]

The unit cannot determine the target bearing at range 0, because the bearing code expects x0,y0 not to be the same as x1,y1 - some routines return different results if that is the case. So you can fire at a tank, shot hits rear, next one hits the front etc.

I think we fixed some of it in the DOS days - better than a crash anyway, but probably not all cases discovered as yet.

So range 0 combat is (and always has been) - squiffy. About the only thing worth getting into the same hex as an enemy for though is infantry on infantry melee - firing a tank at 0 or 1 is the exact same hit chance, penetration etc as range 1 and at range 1 the bearing routine knows what is what. So why bother to expend extra MP on entering the same hex as the target tank if shooting from the adjacent hex is entirely equivalent?

[sigeena]

If I have an inf unit with handheld AT weapon that can only PEN side, rear, top but not front armour of a tank, wouldn't it be more desirable to enter into the same hex before firing the AT weapon, assuming close assault has already been fired once.

[Mobhack]

If facing the enemy's frontal armour - then close assault the thing since close assault is usually on the thinnest armour (which is why infantry with hand grenades do a good job on open-topped grenade buckets). A failed close assault may well leave the enemy in retreat status as well.

If you are unspotted and enter the enemy hex, then he is likely to spot you and retaliate. It also uses up MP which you need to close assault, and also rteduces the number of shots available due to the movement (including entering a hex with someone in it). When in the same hex you may get a rear or side hot at random - but IMHO, the risks outweigh the benefits.

Entering the same hex is really only worthwhile for infantry on infantry (or cavalry on infantry) melee. Cavalry are the bees knees when it comes to dealing with a horde of routers!

[Kiwikkiwik]

Hi Mobhack, Interesting reply, so ignoring the unwarrented insult, and the threat,
Your wrong about the soviet 45 gun and German Pzb no matter how many time you "try it again" the errors remain.
Yes I understand about the AC class, obviously these 2 Jap ACs are the wrong class as the troops are carried in the armoured car not on it, it's an APC. Same stands for the 251/21. I would have explained this for you originally but I am trying to keep my posts short.

Ok

[DRG]

Re: Russian W18 45mm obr.32/38....Yes, the AP pen drops from 5 to 3 at 600m but the Best AP is 5 for that range so the pen for 600m will be 3, 4 or 5 depending on the random number that is used. This is not a bug or an error.

AC/APC class is a code change that was made in MBT but not applied to WW2 but will be whenever we release another update. AC with carrying capacity for passengers will be changed to carry them internally and UC22 ( sp flak ) will be included in that change

[Kiwikkiwik]

I see,
Obviously I don't know how the actual ingame penetration is calculated and if the Best AP gives a normal distribution irrespective of the AP value, well and good. I was just pointing out that no matter how many times you open the table it will always jump from 5 to 3 you will never see a 4 in AP. But if thats OK no worries,
Thanks for your reply.