winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs

[2ndLt_Fjun]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

(The current 4.05 EXE certainly has no problems in either SECURE or BASIC security as determined by my testing & debug tracing. But it has the routine for storing basic mode OOB checksums called in the correct places)

Andy

Hi Andy. Just so I get this right - what you are saying is that these bugs are already known and there is an unreleased .exe file where the problems have been solved already. So this is a really a non-issue and we only have to wait for the next release/fix to come out?

A follow up question - is this bug causing any harm/problems in the actual gameplay, apart from showing the error message?

[Sgt_Walrus]

Hi Andy

All my errors in recent PBEMs, and all my tests...excluding the very last one with Imp...have been using Basic Security.

I am sure that we mention this earlier in this thread. Appologies if we didn't.

If there is a fix coming for this, excellent.
I will post at The Blitz to just ignore the error messages when using Basic Security and that there is a fix on the way.

Cheers
Jason

[DRG]

What you said was this.....

Originally Posted by Sgt_Walrus

Games set up using Basic Security can be played by just ignoring the messages...but if the players wish to use Full Security...then they are stuck.
Regards
Jason - Sgt. Walrus

Given we have already posted info on the forum about the basic security OOB error messages that were to be ignored what else were we to "assume" but these were secure games giving the error messages BECAUSE you said "Basic Security can be played by just ignoring the messages" which is exactly what we said when we told people about the known basic security message error

We all just spent hours of wasted effort. You testing something we've already reported as a known error that should be ignored and us re-testing secure games.

So NO you didn't make it clear these were basic security games

Don

[Sgt_Walrus]

Don

When I first made a post on this issue, I had looked around the forum and had not seen anything about the Basic security error in v4.0.
My intent here was not to waste your time, nor Andy's, nor Fred or Imps...and especially not mine.

If I had seen something that looked like the information I needed I wouldn't have made my initial post.

we have already posted info on the forum about the basic security OOB error messages that were to be ignored

Where is this thread? Nowhere obvious, that's for sure. It wasn't just me that missed this, both Imp and Fjun use this forum and neither of them was aware that there was a security issue already discussed / posted here..

Also...I did not know that the issue we were having was a security issue. I was initially under the impression it was to do with the OOB fix, and wasn't sure about anything really as I was getting conflicting info...some games working others not etc.
It is obvious now that the confusion was in part that some games were Full security, and others basic. However, some games were stock v4.0 and others +OOB fix. There was some confusion in general.
From Andy's post #16, all the conversation was about OOB patches , which was why we all focused our testing in that direction

I rarely visit this forum now, as opposed to when I used to game test here, as I am very busy. I don't come here and make annoying posts about arcane penetration issues or rare unit problems. I play this game almost exclusively PBEM, I give my limited spare time to moderate a forum where we play you game. I endorse your game to everyone who is interested. My posts here are intended to help with communication between the players of this game, and you guys, the hard working designers.
Yet I feel like I am being berated for being a time wasting idiot who has not got a clue.

Perhaps when I asked this question in my initial post..


Has anyone else had any OOB error / security type error messages when playing PBEM with v4.0 + OOB fix?

...one of you guys might have pointed me at the thread to do with this known v4.0 security issue. Your assumptions that I must have read X thread relating to issue Y didn't really help with us all wasting our time either.

Your first post (#8) was just full of insinuations that our problems were just due to incompetence and lack of communication between players at the Blitz.
I did everything I could from that point to test with other Blitz PBEMers and pass on anything useful under the mistaken impression that I was being helpful and constructive...my bad.

My unfortunate comment..

but if the players wish to use Full Security...then they are stuck.

...was not due to testing but to an assumption that if an error came up in Basic security, then the same problem would cause Full security would stop the game. A bad assumption when the actual problem was with Basic security itself. I wish I had said "but I have not tested a full security game yet to see if I get an error"...perhaps that would have save our time.
My bad.

Just FYI. When players at the Blitz come up with an OOB issue, or game play thing they would liked looked at...I always post up to say that they should get in touch with you guys here and to make sure you have saved games file and good data so you guys don't have your time wasted.

I quite often get answers back that they don't like to post here at Shrapnel as they just end up copping a dose of attitude and are generally treated with less than politeness for their efforts at helping bring an issue to your attention.
I have always assumed that this was an over-reaction...but now, I would have to say that I agree.

All I have done is try my best to help out our small community.
I feel like I have been publicly treated like an idiot and general time waster....thanks for that.

I will always endorse this game to anyone as the best ww2 tactical game going IMO, and I will forever be grateful for the massive combined efforts of you and Andy to keep this game alive and growing for so very long, but I have to say that I will be very hesitant about pointing anyone with a query or question to this forum in the future.
That is a real shame.

Jason

[2ndLt_Fjun]

Originally Posted by DRG

We all just spent hours of wasted effort. You testing something we've already reported as a known error that should be ignored and us re-testing secure games.

Hi Don. An idea to avoid these things and save work and time for everyone could be to have a sticky "Known issues"-thread.

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by Sgt_Walrus

Hi Andy

All my errors in recent PBEMs, and all my tests...excluding the very last one with Imp...have been using Basic Security.

I am sure that we mention this earlier in this thread. Appologies if we didn't.

If there is a fix coming for this, excellent.
I will post at The Blitz to just ignore the error messages when using Basic Security and that there is a fix on the way.

Cheers
Jason

I think the confusion started with your paragraph

Games set up using Basic Security can be played by just ignoring the messages...but if the players wish to use Full Security...then they are stuck.

Which looks like you already knew about the basic mode PBEM workaround published in the post at http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=44539 ( "Games set up using Basic Security can be played by just ignoring the messages").

The highlighted part makes it seem as if you were having a similar brand-new and unreported OOB checksum problem with secure mode. And that is why Don and I were debugging secure mode (which works fine) and not basic mode.

The basic PBEM mode security OOB mismatch error is already known and reported in the forums - and has already been fixed for MBT and WW2. The WW2 EXE with the fix will be released some time after the MBT patch which we are currently working on is out the door.

Andy

[Sgt_Walrus]

Hi Andy

I have to disagree.
The confusion started when I started to get a bunch of players reporting security error messages and no-one seemed to have an answer for the issue, neither at the Blitz nor at Shrapnel.

I agree that my general confusion as to what was happening didn't help you guys when you were trying to help me / us out...but your assumptions were as wrong as mine...therefore we both contributed to that being an over long and pointless exercize.

In the end, you two had the information I needed all along. I was in the dark from moment one.
That's life I guess...and I am happy to cop half the blame (and Imp and Fjun I guess).

As for the link to the published work around for the issue.
I think the link is the wrong one as it doesn't mention the quote you gave.
Anyway, it is buried in the TO&E page and in that thread there is only this mention of a resolution to what seemed to be being discussed as a PBEM Campaign problem. In fact, the first line of your quote below (post #11) is completely incorrect and if I had read it before my initial post...I would have been none the wiser and probably more confused.


Stand-alone PBEM games (in simple mode security) - system is working OK.
PBEM campaigns - the checksums are not being passed. Bug confirmed .
So for PBEM campaigns, ignore the message for now till we fix it.

When you say..

The highlighted part makes it seem as if you were having a similar brand-new and unreported OOB checksum problem with secure mode.

In reference to me saying..

Games set up using Basic Security can be played by just ignoring the messages...but if the players wish to use Full Security...then they are stuck.

..I completely understand what you are saying. However, that was an assumption on your part as I know for a fact that I was just referring to the generally known fact that Basic Security just messages you with error, whereas Full Security will actually stop the game. A great example of the fact that language will often be the greatest barrier to communication. Sad but true.

So...instead of trying to absolve yourselves from all blame as to who has wasted who's time (which this thread seems to have become now), how about looking from a fresh angle?

A community of experienced SP PBEM players who do not normally visit the Shrapnel site experienced a sudden issue with their games after patching up. The problems occurred slowly (over days) and sporadically (thus the confusion as to the exact nature of the problem) as everyone was playing PBEM games, rather than against the AI.

After failing to get a resolution in the Blitz community, we came to you.
Looking in the forums did not give any answers (I never found the thread you have previously mentioned) and there were no stickies mention the issue.

So...we / I did the obvious thing and made a new post asking 'anyone' if they had seen a similar issue.
What else were we supposed to do?

If you, as Fred suggested, had a Sticky called "Known Issues with latest patches", that would have been the first place I would have looked.

For PBEM players (the entire Blitz Steel panthers community) a security error is a big deal. Thus our attempts to resolve it.

I am happy to hear it is sorted (as i said earlier) and I appreciate your excellent work over a long time with this, my favorite game...as I have often said before.
I never came here to harass, or waste time or be a pain...even though Don might think that...I came here to help my friends at the Blitz, that's all. I certainly didn't come here to be treated like a dunce.

Anyway. The correct information has come to light. That make me happy.
Thank you for your help with everything

Jason

[Mobhack]

No problem - we got there in the end - after talking at cross purposes !

A "current known issues" sticky thread may well be a good idea. (Locked so nobody adds confusing random posts to it, and deleted when it is out of date).

Andy

[Sgt_Walrus]

Hi Andy

I have posted a link to, and the text of, the new Known Issues thread on the board at The Blitz.

Thanks for doing that...bloody good idea and very helpful.
Most appreciated.

Regards
Jason