POLL: Backstabbing

Pax · #1 June 7th, 2003, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidG:
No you lost. You may have had fun but you lost. It's going to be pretty hard to have a relevant discussion if you are going to make up your own definitions for words.

I refute that. Again, define "win" -- for you, seemingly, it must mean "make everyone else lose".

I don't play like that, and don't generaly enjoy playing with people who DO.

To me, someone wins if they get out of a game, exactly what they WANTED to get out of it. I don't have to be declared the victor by the game code, to enjoy myself.

And enjoying myself is my ONLY goal. So, if I have a good time playing, I win ... no matter the final scores.

That may not be winning for you, but that's the beauty of the way I see it: everyone chooses their own goals, their own "victory conditions" ... and it's entirely possible for everyone to "win" in terms of achieving their goals.

DavidG · #2 June 7th, 2003, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pax:

quote:
Originally posted by DavidG:
No you lost. You may have had fun but you lost. It's going to be pretty hard to have a relevant discussion if you are going to make up your own definitions for words.

I refute that. Again, define "win" -- for you, seemingly, it must mean "make everyone else lose".

Do you not own a dictionary? Are you unaware of the victory conditions option in the game? If you play a game of chess and lose your king you have lost the game. You may have had fun doing it but you lost. If you are playing a game of Se4 on Last man standing rules then yes the object is to make everyone else lose. This does NOT mean you are trying to make the game no fun for them. Why are you trying to turn a desire to win into something evil and nasty? It is the object of the game in most SE4 games I have played.

Gryphin · #3 June 7th, 2003, 03:58 AM

Win = Have Fun
Win = Two Hav Phun (My Preferance)
Win = Concour the quadrant
Win = Enjoy concouring the quadrant

We can all look it up in the dictionary.
Here we define it for ourselves.
At that point there is nothing to discus.

I guess when all is said and done it comes down to:
If your ally broke a treaty
Would you feel it was wrong or just part of the game?
Will you ever trust them again in another game
Will you try to get even in another game

About the best I feel you can do is agree in advance how to cancel treatys. If the other player will not agree, (in which case you can't trust them), or if they break the agrement you pretty much have your answer.
Since I have not been and don't think I will be in this situation
Is This all idealistic spectulation?
or
An Unbiased suggesiton?

I susspect many will think I have over simplyfied.

DavidG · #4 June 7th, 2003, 04:22 AM

Win = Have Fun
Lose = Have Fun
Therefore: Win = Lose

I apologize if it seems like I'm going on a rant here but I don't understand why some people seem to want to vilianize a desire to win. Most games have rules that define who the winner is. You won't see the Maple Leafs losing the 7th game of the Stanley Cup 10-1 and then have the ref say 'oh wait they had more fun so they win'

In SE4 the rules often say the Last empire alive wins. So I try to make this my empire. Is that really a bad thing?

Personaly I think everyone trys to win in SE4 even if they won't admit it to themselves. I've played the Prirates in a P&N game which is pretty tough to win at (and I didn't) but I still tried to win. Yes I had fun but I did not win the game.

Chronon · #5 June 7th, 2003, 04:30 AM

Has anyone here ever played Avalon Hill's Diplomacy? Now there is a game that truly rewards backstabbing (it's almost impossible to win without backstabbing at least one player in the game). It used to be my favorite game, but I don't play it anymore because too many of my friends took it personally when they got backstabbed, and it started to carry over into real life. In comparison, I find the group of players on PBW quite honorable and forthright. Yes, backstabs do happen, but in my experience Partnerships really mean something in SE4. I find that very refreshing.

DavidG · #6 June 7th, 2003, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gryphin:
I guess when all is said and done it comes down to:
If your ally broke a treaty
Would you feel it was wrong or just part of the game?
Will you ever trust them again in another game?
Will you try to get even in another game?

- always just part of the game

- yes for sure (but if he does it another dozen times then probably not)

- the first time no, the second time probably not, the third time....

I think it is like Stone Mill said. You try to start with a clean slate but if you are up against a player who has betrayed you a dozen times before are you really going to trust him again? You may take actions in game that your role played trusting empire would but you as a player would no doubt have those previous betrayals in the back of your mind.

Slynky · #7 June 7th, 2003, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chronon:
Has anyone here ever played Avalon Hill's Diplomacy? Now there is a game that truly rewards backstabbing (it's almost impossible to win without backstabbing at least one player in the game). It used to be my favorite game, but I don't play it anymore because too many of my friends took it personally when they got backstabbed, and it started to carry over into real life. In comparison, I find the group of players on PBW quite honorable and forthright. Yes, backstabs do happen, but in my experience Partnerships really mean something in SE4. I find that very refreshing.

Yep...lonnnnng time ago. And, you are right. Hence the name of the game.