My AI Design Q&A

[cybersol]

Originally posted by cybersol:
They just keep coming! Is anyone reading anymore?

9) Any way to force the AI to do engine retrofits at planets with both a shipyard AND a resupply base? For instance, is there a way to get it to build a resupply base (even though it wants to put only one per system) on every planet with a shipyard?

They say it is bad when you start talking to yourself. But here it is nonetheless. Ships with supply storage components at least still have some supply, so this helps this problem some. The only really bad problem is then colony ships because as I mentioned in #8), colony ships never try to resupply. Even if they retrofit engines at a non-resupply base and have only 500 supply from their supply storage they still head (very SLOWLY) accross the galaxy.

[cybersol]

Still looking for novel solutions to the following AI bugs.

Problem/Bug 3a)
Is there anyway to stop the AI from trying to retrofit to a “newer” Version of a ship that is in fact the same as the old Version? This results in ships being wasted just sitting there and trying to be retrofitted but failing because the ships are identical.

Problem/Bug 3b)
A similar bug where ships that hit the 50% retrofit limit just sit there useless trying to retrofit but failing over and over again. This happens for a long time, sometimes they switch and try to retrofit at a different ship yard with the same result.

Problem/Bug 6)
As a human player I can design a ship with a small transport hull that has only 5 mine layer components and no cargo storage components but sull fulfills the 50% cargo requirement. Since the mine layers secondary ability is cargo storage and 5*30=150 and 150/300 >= 50% then this is a valid design. Is there a way to have the AI design this ship, or is a transport hull forced to have eight cargo storage components for the AI no matter what?
To prove this design works for a human player, do the following. Start up an unmodded game with yourself in command, create a ship design with a small transport hull. Fill with command and control and engines. The "50% of spaces must be used for cargo containers" warning won't let you create the design yet. No add only five mine layer components. The warning disappears, you can create the design now. You need zero cargo components to make this ship. Now try to get your AI to build that same ship. As far as I can tell it is impossible.

Problem/Bug 7)
The AI will retrofit a ship and then leave before it finished repairing all the damaged components it just created.
Since I've have been looking in more detail, I noticed a pattern the Last few time the AI has done this. It does the retrofit, waits a single turn for any repair work, then sends the ship off for duty. The ships then fly around damaged trying to perform their normal role like nothing is wrong with them.

Problem/Bug 8)
Most ships seems to understand when they are running out of supply except colony ships. Those are really important ships not to stop off and resupply before travelling across the entire quadrant. Is there any trick (before solar collectors make it unecessary) to get them to stop and resupply at a forward system and then go off and colonize.

Problem/Bug 9)
Any way to force the AI to do engine retrofits at planets with both a shipyard AND a resupply base? For instance, is there a way to get it to build a resupply base (even though it wants to put only one per system) on every planet with a shipyard?
Ships with supply storage components at least still have some supply, so this helps this problem some. The only really bad problem is then colony ships because as I mentioned above in 8), colony ships never try to resupply. Even if they retrofit engines at a non-resupply base and have only 500 supply from their supply storage they still head (very SLOWLY) accross the entire quadrant!

[oleg]

Originally posted by cybersol:
Problem/Bug 9)
Any way to force the AI to do engine retrofits at planets with both a shipyard AND a resupply base? For instance, is there a way to get it to build a resupply base (even though it wants to put only one per system) on every planet with a shipyard?
Ships with supply storage components at least still have some supply, so this helps this problem some. The only really bad problem is then colony ships because as I mentioned above in 8), colony ships never try to resupply. Even if they retrofit engines at a non-resupply base and have only 500 supply from their supply storage they still head (very SLOWLY) accross the entire quadrant!

Absolutely ! AI religiously follows the build order specified in A_construction_facilities file. All you should do is to insert entry with "resupply" on every colony type that has "space yard". Regarding "resupply colony", it does not have to be only one per system. It is also specified in the same file. In fact, one my Proportion' AI build up to 5 resupply baces per system and space yards+resupply baces every time

[oleg]

Originally posted by cybersol:
Problem/Bug 3a)
Is there anyway to stop the AI from trying to retrofit to a “newer” Version of a ship that is in fact the same as the old Version? This results in ships being wasted just sitting there and trying to be retrofitted but failing because the ships are identical.

Not what I know of, but it is not a very big deal. It does not go for more than 3 turns per ship. It can be even used for AI advantage - AI does not benefit from ship training facilities - ships rarely stay over planet even for one turn. "identical retrofit" cause ships to hover over the planet with space yard. If your AI builds ship training facility there (mod construction_facilities file ! ) it can actually train ship crews

[cybersol]

Originally posted by oleg:
Problem/Bug 9) Solution
Absolutely ! AI religiously follows the build order specified in A_construction_facilities file. All you should do is to insert entry with "resupply" on every colony type that has "space yard". Regarding "resupply colony", it does not have to be only one per system. It is also specified in the same file. In fact, one my Proportion' AI build up to 5 resupply baces per system and space yards+resupply baces every time

I am learning a lot about modded AI's. I looked into your Puntherraian AI and I see "Emergency Resupply" calls for resupply bases. Looking at the proportions Facility.txt in the data folder I see resupply depots have been modded to have both the "Supply Generation" and "Emergency Resupply" ability. Unfortunately the unmodded resupply depots only have the "Supply Generation" ability. It seems the "Supply Generation" call is the one that is limited to one per system. So I see how you can get it all to work in proportions, but I can also see why it doesn't work for a TDM type AI.

Thanks for the information, oleg. All around that modification to facilities is definitely a novel way around the problem.

Originally posted by oleg:
Problem/Bug 3a) Bug turned into advantage!
Not what I know of, but it is not a very big deal. It does not go for more than 3 turns per ship. It can be even used for AI advantage - AI does not benefit from ship training facilities - ships rarely stay over planet even for one turn. "identical retrofit" cause ships to hover over the planet with space yard. If your AI builds ship training facility there (mod construction_facilities file ! ) it can actually train ship crews

That is a great point because I am building ship training facilities right now (have not decided on fleet training yet though, your thoughts?). Just to let you know though, I have had a design that changes tech rarely stay over a planet for 10 turns before the design finally changed and the retrofit was successful.

[ June 15, 2003, 08:59: Message edited by: cybersol ]

[oleg]

I do not think "supply generation" is limited one per system. Or is it ? Does AI treat "supply generation" as a some sort of system-wide ability ? I doubt it very much.

[Rollo]

Originally posted by oleg:
I do not think "supply generation" is limited one per system. Or is it ? Does AI treat "supply generation" as a some sort of system-wide ability ? I doubt it very much.

well, in standard SE4 the AI builds only one resupply depot per system. So yes, Suppply Generation does have some sort of hardcode like system wide facilities.
A very good thing to avoid excess facilities to save slots and resources, IMO.

Rollo