Exclusive Techs - Theory and Discussion

[Suicide Junkie]

It could also explain the racial techs (e.g. crystal techies can't grasp that organic tech because some of the theories they rely on say it's impossible, and vice-versa; those who buy both traits have a different set of theories that work and aren't mutually exclusive). Also, I was focusing more on the philisophical side.

I consider the Organic and Crystalline techs to be somewhat borderline.
Psychic, Temporal, & Religious are more easily seen to be something inherent to your race's biology, at least by me.

The kind of thing you'd need thousands to millions to hundreds of millions of years to change, and a re well outside the scope of the game.

Although, again, planet and star creation should also take more than thousands of years to settle down to something usable.

Yes ... but remember, A was better than C in every way possible; assuming they have the same research costs, it then becomes a matter of choosing short-term or long-term. Likewise, I didn't address what comes later down the line in tech A....

Fair enough. There are decent ways to weave it into gameplay.

Again, an abstract mechanic could represent this by having say, plate armor and cavalry become unavailable, or at least much harder to produce, after gunpowder weapons reach an advanced state. It's not really an accurate cause and effect, however. The real cause is a shift in infrastructure and trained workforce (technology) and socio-economic effects, neither of which are really included in SE4.

I'm really starting to like the idea of giving greater and greater cost reductions for each item made using one repeat-build order...
Something like 1% cheaper after every 5000kt of resource spent, up to a limit of 20% cheaper.

* One way to achieve this in modded SE4 is to have major theoretical prerequisites which make it possible but impractical (or at least, a major trade-off) to try to research alternate branches. It would also help if the research points, costs, and tree depths were sufficient to avoid players "getting to the end and having nothing better to do with their research points".

A good, practical idea.
First you need to make sure the alternatives are all viable, though (and in different ways). None of the APB/PPB we see in unmodded SE4; more like SE3.

[Taera]

First, the idea is good. I had once raised such a discussion already, but i was talking about randomizing techs available to races. As such, i like the idea

The realistic theory behind those techs is basicly the same as behind racial techs. Each race had developed in its own unique environment - one was forced to evolve on trees, another one was evolved on a planet with 6G. Third race had developed on a planet with soup-like atmosphere and as such were able to move in complete 3d, and have perfect graps of 3d movement. Fourth race was the dominant carnivore specie. Each one of these would develop their own, unique, technologies. Most obvious things are outer appearance - before mass production, media and gunpowder, maybe even before mass knighthood, each race and tribe had their own outfits and war outfits.
OK i went long enough, basicly the point is the race through millions of years develops a specific way of thinking, and simply cannot grasp, by any means, something completely different. Its like a bird describing you how to fly, or fish explaining how to breath with gills. Or like an alien explaining you the Five Steps in time travel.

Heh, thats long application... no its not possible in SE4 because it requires A SIMPLE BOOLEAN SWITCH but its not there. Realy, this requires a simple function to use with basic TRUE/FALSE. On race development it decides which techs you can develop and not, and condition switches IF (researched tech A) THEN (mark tech B obsolete).

but, there are no conditional switches in the game

EDIT:
In addition, consider personality tech paths - an aggressor would find great torpedoes, missiles, beams a must, but a more defensive player would attain ECM, advanced shields and armor. A simple choice between PDC and Missiles, in the beginning, would make later techs (Advanced PDC or Advanced Missiles) obsolete, accordingly.

[ July 03, 2003, 02:29: Message edited by: Taera ]

[Erax]

I like to research all the techs. That's why I always played the Psylons in MoO2 (I only found out that they were one of the best races later). Mutually exclusive techs would be an interesting option, but that's what it should be - an option.

[Suicide Junkie]

In addition, consider personality tech paths - an aggressor would find great torpedoes, missiles, beams a must, but a more defensive player would attain ECM, advanced shields and armor. A simple choice between PDC and Missiles, in the beginning, would make later techs (Advanced PDC or Advanced Missiles) obsolete, accordingly.

I fail to see why that should prevent you from researching the other.
And besides that, how could an "Advanced" Version become obsolete when you're still using the standard Version, unless you find an "Uber" Version of the same tech?

A change of leadership, or pressure from another race could all make you decide to develop the techs you neglected before.

"Hello, Sir. I know I'm just a historian, but back in 2402.5, there was a big question of whether to work on Tech A or Tech B. Since our highly developed tech A is useless against these aliens, I suggest we try Tech B instead. If if proves effective we could continue to develop it to its full potential and have these nasties on the run!"

[Taera]

remember the movies SJ, what do Earth's generals do when a nuke fails to shoot down the alien craft? send a dozen more. And then some more. its not always the case, not in the long run, but that how commonly people think... or at least are thought to think

EDIT: More:
An aggressor race would simply be unable to graps (i like the word) the context of electronic counter-measures or cowardly cloaking, while the defender's mind would be unable to think of the atrocity of plague or rad bombs, or high-energy weapons. Thats some reason isnt it?

[ July 03, 2003, 21:39: Message edited by: Taera ]

[Suicide Junkie]

And then they finally give up on the nearly-useless weapons, and develop the computer virus weapon to disable the enemy ships, and everybody who lives, lives happily ever after

[ July 03, 2003, 22:41: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]