Are we absolutely sure....

[raynor]

quote:

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Originally posted by Drake:
I have to agree, it doesn't make sense. I usually never bother researching any of the individual resource branches. I get the impression that some stuff is just thrown into the tech tree to fill it out, without balancing. Weapons are another problem area.

Maybe they just figured it's close enough and someone else would mod it to balance things better, who knows...

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*grumble*

Stupid AI is researching the heck out of Organics right now INSTEAD of Stellar Manipulation.

Somewhere down the line, with Zeno's help, we are going to have a full suite of programs for editing the AI files and will be able to (more) easily edit the tech research files to cutout all the dead end research that the AI currently does.

Since the AI isn't adaptive, the best way to get a challenging game seems to be to re-design their research and ship-desigs to counter the stuff you are going to research and put on your ships.

Someday...

[Baron Munchausen]

quote:

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Originally posted by Spyder:
The reason that this doesn't make sense is because it completely eliminates the need to research Minerals, Organics & Radioactives at all. I just need to research Planet Usage to get Monoliths, and Computers to get Robotoid Factories & System Robotoid Factories. Why even bother with the others?

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That's why I advocate splitting "Value Improvement" facilities into three seperate techs and putting those three techs in the upper levels of each resource type. Think about it. Why would ONE technology improve both mineral availability and organic fertility??? Weird. So, have them as seperate technologies in their respective fields. This is much more logical and would give you a reason to research those higher levels. This leaves ONLY atmosphere related techs in Planet Usage. Just drop the Atmosphere Modification plants down to 4/5/6 in Planet Usage and increase the basic research cost a bit.

[Windborne]

A better solution would be to give us more levels in each individual technology, say add in "Mineral extraction plant IV", monoliths only go up to level three, that way a level IV mineral extraction plant with the sesmic detection stuff you already get at level for of minerals would pull out more minerals each turn then the highest ranking generalized monolith facility.

[Spyder]

Yep, that is what I was thinking Windborne....give us something that will out produce the monolith. That way if you need minerals, it'll be more efficient to put mineral plants than monoliths.

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Spyder, Chairman of the Arachnid Consortium

[DirectorTsaarx]

Specialized facilities ALREADY outproduce Monoliths (at the same tech level, of course). For instance, a Mineral Miner generates 800, 900 or 1000 minerals vs. 500, 700, or 900 minerals from a Monolith. Or did you want the resource-specific facilities to generate triple the amount of a Monolith, to make up for the fact that a Monolith generates some of each resource? Although you should also bear in mind the relative costs to build those facilities in the first place (resource-specific facilities are much cheaper than Monoliths).

The only reason I can see for Scanners (or whatever) vs. Robotoid Factories is the build cost. If you have a planet (or system, for the system-wide facilities) that only produces a particular resource, it's cheaper to build the appropriate bonus facility instead of the Robotoid Factory. HOWEVER, the research costs for the resource-specific bonus facilities may not be worth the cost savings. Especially since you also get research and intelligence bonus facilities while researching the Robotoid Factories.

In all, I think some of the facilities were balanced in terms of a high-tech start, but not in terms of a low-tech start. As for the weapons, there've been weapon balance problems since SE3 and SE2. Carriers in SE2 were practically unbeatable; Ripper Beams in both SE2 and SE3 were fairly useless, but Wave Motion Guns were great; Graviton Hellbores in SE3 cost too much to research for the damage ratio. And now in SE4, fighters seem a bit more balanced (though not perfect, it seems); WMG's may now cost too much to research (especially since you have to get Propulsion 8 or 10 or something just to research High-Energy Weapons, and then do all the research to get WMG's). Graviton Hellbores are easier to research than in SE3; the damage ratio still isn't great, but it's practically the only direct-fire weapon with Range 8 (except for WMG's, Anti-Proton Beam 12's, and some of the Organic weapons).

Ah well, enough off-thread ranting...

[Spyder]

You are correct, DT, but.....

For the research cost to get there, Miners III are worth far less than Monoliths III because you must research ALL THREE resource trees to gain the 1000, where, with Monoliths you need only research Planetary Usage where you gain other techs as well.

The Monolith facilities, because they'll mine EACH of the resources, are way more efficient overall. The 100 resource difference between the Monolith III and the Miner III is too small. Like someone said below, if we had a Miner IV & V that significantly outproduced the Monolith Facility, we could mine single resource planets because it'd be more efficient then to build Miners V on a planet that only has plentiful minerals, or, in a case where you need minerals very badly.


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Spyder, Chairman of the Arachnid Consortium

[Daynarr]

Monoliths are also much more expensive. If you do add more levels for standard extractors you will make monoliths completely useless.