Cthulhu R'lyeh Wgah'nagl Fhtagn, Lä! Lä!

[johan osterman]

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:
That's not very surprising. Because of its irrevocable effect you better had to ensure your own astral supremacy before starting to think about magic duel. Then, if you duelled an astral 3 mage with your astral 4 one you always won because of the bug. And therefore - the duel mechanics still being a mystery at the time - everyone assumed that more astral meant automatic victory. Because of that low astral mages avoided confrontations and in the rare occasions a duel actually happened, the initiator was always the higher skilled mage. One had to test specifically for this to discover the bug.

So (1) I think you're a bit rude, and (2) that should be an incentive for the devs to be more versatile on the inner mechanics of the game - in this case if we players had known about the 1D6, we players wouldn't have been long before suspecting something didn't work as expected in magic duel.

Point taken. I apologise if I offended you. I do however think that the cspigs dominions discussions sometimes have a tendency to become a bit dogmatic, and that it is advisable to take some of the conventional wisdom of the newsgroup with a pinch of salt, which the incident above serves to illustrate.

[johan osterman]

Originally posted by PDF:

quote:

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Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
It never did, not even while bugged. Both mages add 1D6 to their astral skill. The bug made the initiator win always.

Do yo mean it's fixed since some patch ? Everyone still consider the best Astral mage always win... What's the truth ?

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The truth is that the best astral mage never won automatically, since 1.13 or 1.14 or something it works as intended 1d6+ astral skill, lowest sum dies, I don't recall what happens in ties. Before patch initiator always won.

Who is everyone?

[Nerfix]

Ok, but i have a question about Pokectulh...err...Tentacle Boog...I mean, Void Monsters:
Do you summon them or do you get them from a magic site?

[Jasper]

Originally posted by johan osterman:
I have a little trouble taking the whole usenet magic duel debate seriously, since Ying Wan Lam discovered that the magic duel had been seriously bugged for the better part of the time that all the complaints were made.

No offense, but this is actually a very good example of what's wrong with Magic Duel. It has _such_ a chilling effect that everyone (not just the good players) stayed away from it unless they absolutely dominated in Astral Magic. Besides, do you really expect all of your players to have time to testbed _every_ aspect of Dominions?!

People's decisions on this were almost entirely made on how Mind Duel was _supposed_ to work, not how the bug made it work. Besides, do you really expect players to have enough time to testbed _every_ aspect of Dominions?!

The effects of Mind Duel on Pretender design and faction balance are IMHO undeniable and undesireable.

[Nerfix]

Originally posted by Jasper:

quote:

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Originally posted by johan osterman:
I have a little trouble taking the whole usenet magic duel debate seriously, since Ying Wan Lam discovered that the magic duel had been seriously bugged for the better part of the time that all the complaints were made.

The effects of Mind Duel on Pretender design and faction balance are IMHO undeniable and undesireable.

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Well, Magic Duel is one of the main reasons why Void Lord and Shedu are treated like lepers.

[johan osterman]

Originally posted by Jasper:
No offense, but this is actually a very good example of what's wrong with Magic Duel. It has _such_ a chilling effect that everyone (not just the good players) stayed away from it unless they absolutely dominated in Astral Magic. Besides, do you really expect all of your players to have time to testbed _every_ aspect of Dominions?!

People's decisions on this were almost entirely made on how Mind Duel was _supposed_ to work, not how the bug made it work. Besides, do you really expect players to have enough time to testbed _every_ aspect of Dominions?!

The effects of Mind Duel on Pretender design and faction balance are IMHO undeniable and undesireable.

Non taken. The thing is that we in our circle of friends, beta testers etc have not experienced mind duel as major factor in pretender design. Perhaps we play less competetively or some such thing, but it has never appeared to be a factor in the same big way it appeared from the cspigs discussions. This coupled with the bug and misperception of its mechanics appears to me indicative that its fearsome reputation is disproportionate to its actual impact in the game. If recall correctly Ying Wan Lam also made an argument concering the over estimation prominence of the Astral King, in conjunction with the testing that resulted in the discovery of the mind duel bug. As far as I can recall the argument was if not exhaustive at least somewhat convincing and show that other players from other player Groups share our estimate.

To sum it up: I have played a fair number of games with reasonably competent players and mind duel has not in my experience been a major factor in pretender design. Nor does its power when analysed appear to me to be so decisive as the cspigs discussions imply. I think the astral kings have been attributed consequence disproportionate to their actual power. Perhaps we could play a game or two when Dominions 2 becomes available to you.

[Kristoffer O]

Originally posted by Nerfix:
Well, Magic Duel is one of the main reasons why Void Lord and Shedu are treated like lepers.

I have always liked them. Besides, it works both ways. A pretender with astral picks should be powerful enough not to worry too much.

Hmm. For a while at least. Then others might try to boost their mages to get rid of him.

Can it be that no one gives their pretenders astral picks? I often do. There are so many useful astral spells, low as well as high level and a dead pretender is not a big problem.