Supercombattant pretenders....what about...

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by Particle:

quote:

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Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:
A good strategic AI is extremely difficult to implement, and it's NOT that important.

Actually it is VERY important.

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Nope, it's not - because there are easy and effective workarounds for single player. I provided two, but it seems you forgot to read them.

[MythicalMino]

my question concerning the strategic AI is this: If it is indeed as weak as ppl are claiming it is, then what happened between Dominions 1 and dominions 2? Granted the AI in Dom1 wasn't the "end all, be all" of AI, but it was decent enough, hell, it can still give me a very big run for my money....so, what happened between the 2 games?

Something had to have happened during the final stages of development, where the beta testers couldn't have caught it. If they were saying that the ai was great, but now, completely new guys are stomping it, then something had to happen towards the end, right?

It either has to be something to do with a late-stage development code change or data change somewhere....or, the ppl that are saying that they can wipe the virtual floor with the AI are either lying about it (NOTE: I AM NOT SAYING ANYONE IS LYING, THIS IS JUST A POSSIBLE OPTION!!!!!!!!)....or, they are setting the game up strange or something along those lines....

Now, if it is indeed something went wrong in the late stages of development, then possibly IW will be able to find it easy enough....and fix it of course....

[LordArioch]

I think the people finding it easy are making rampaging supercombat pretenders. That's like being amazed the dom1 ai was easy when you played as caelum and air elementaled it to death.

[Chris Byler]

Originally posted by mr.white:
my very first game I used an earth mother. She Lasted about 3 battles until she found machaka and got blinded by a witch-doctor. Sigh.

That was one lucky witchdoctor to get through a pretender's MR (unless it was in a seriously hostile dominion). If he was going to be that lucky, he should have been casting Seven Year Fever - or maybe Blindness is better against something with that many HP? Can diseased units still regenerate?

In any case, Curse has no defense and is always nasty; Blindness, Seven Year Fever and Soul Slay are all serious setbacks if they get through MR (and there is always some chance). Life drain won't help against any of those.

And of course the old Favorites, Black Bow of Botulf and Ethereal Crossbow; they now have a new friend, Vision's Foe. (RoF one per 3 rounds, but if it hits it is armor negating and automatically causes an eye loss with each hit - I saw no mention of an MR save. Air 1 Death 1 Cons 4 IIRC.) Eye Shields, Totem Shields, Knife of the Damned (I think this causes curse even if it fails to damage, but not sure), Heart Finder Sword and Shields of the Accursed still work well too. These are all non-artifacts that can be forged for reasonable cost.

Although Elemental Hauberk provides 100% resistance to fire, frost and lightning cheaply and easily (IW: if you're reading this, make that 50% resistance to fire, frost and lightning. No non-artifact should have 3 permanent immunities.), you still have to devote a separate item slot to poison or take your chances with Bog Beasts, Hydras, Poison Cloud, Snake Bladder Sticks and the new Serpent Kris. Regeneration and life drain will help offset poison - unless you're also cursed, in which case the poison is very likely to cause afflictions even if it doesn't kill you.

Anything can be seriously weakened by afflictions. Generally, things that aren't too badly bothered by blindness will be rendered useless by feeblemind and vice versa. The Void Lord might be an exception - feeblemind would be inconvenient but not necessarily incapacitating - but he can still be crippled, weakened, chest wounded, and possibly lose an arm.

Even if the enemy is Arco or can cast Gift of Health, afflicting a SC takes it out of action for a while. Curse and horror mark are gifts that keep on giving.

[-Storm-]

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:

quote:

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Originally posted by Particle:

quote:

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Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:
A good strategic AI is extremely difficult to implement, and it's NOT that important.

Actually it is VERY important.

---

Nope, it's not - because there are easy and effective workarounds for single player. I provided two, but it seems you forgot to read them.

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Nagot, you are wrong. The overall quality of the strategic AI is very important, regardless of your suggestion. Don't forget that the SP part is now very important, since we have a huge SP playerbase in Dominions II. Yes Doms I. was different, but things have been changed, thanks to Shrapnel.
IW want to make money, and at least half of the players who will buy Dominions II. will prefer SP. [I think that even lot more.]
So IW must do their best with the SP part as well, regardless of your opinion. You are living in the past. This is not Dominions I.

[ November 02, 2003, 22:36: Message edited by: -Storm- ]

[Daynarr]

You can use crossbows to take out SC's. Just give them order fire large monsters. In larger Groups with aim spell they can be deadly for them even in early stages.

But there are some items that really shine against them.


Piercer (crossbow):

Damage: 12 (armor negating)
Precision: 10
Attacks: 1 per 2 rounds
Range: 35
Ammo: 12
Costs: 5 earth and 5 air gems
2nd construction level and earth 1+air 1 mage.

You can get this one in demo. Just give it to some cheap nature mage (druid or cheaper will do), give him order to cast eagle eyes and fire large monsters.


Ethereal Crossbow I call this SC killer.

Damage: 999 (armor negating) - whatever it hits, it kills.
Precision: 5
Attacks: 1 per 2 rounds
Range: 35
Ammo: 12
Costs 5 astral gems!!!!!!!!!
Requires astral level 1 mage and level 6 in construction.

This thing is even cheaper to build then Piercer and is just plain deadly.
Method to use is similar to Piercer, but the effect is much better. You can also build eye that increases precision and give it to your commander for increased hit ratio.

Air shield gives 80% protection against missiles so its possible to hit SC even with air shield on. You just need to field a group of those sniper-commanders.

[Chris Byler]

Originally posted by Daynarr:
You can use crossbows to take out SC's. Just give them order fire large monsters. In larger Groups with aim spell they can be deadly for them even in early stages.

But there are some items that really shine against them.


Piercer (crossbow):

Damage: 12 (armor negating)
Precision: 10
Attacks: 1 per 2 rounds
Range: 35
Ammo: 12
Costs: 5 earth and 5 air gems
2nd construction level and earth 1+air 1 mage.

You can get this one in demo. Just give it to some cheap nature mage (druid or cheaper will do), give him order to cast eagle eyes and fire large monsters.


Ethereal Crossbow I call this SC killer.

Damage: 999 (armor negating) - whatever it hits, it kills.
Precision: 5
Attacks: 1 per 2 rounds
Range: 35
Ammo: 12
Costs 5 astral gems!!!!!!!!!
Requires astral level 1 mage and level 6 in construction.

This thing is even cheaper to build then Piercer and is just plain deadly.
Method to use is similar to Piercer, but the effect is much better. You can also build eye that increases precision and give it to your commander for increased hit ratio.

Air shield gives 80% protection against missiles so its possible to hit SC even with air shield on. You just need to field a group of those sniper-commanders.

Ah yes, I forgot the Piercer. Not great against regenerating SC though - you need several hits per round to overcome regeneration. Except combined with Curse, of course - then you will probably cause some afflictions even if you don't kill the SC immediately.

In Dom I, the Ethereal Crossbow allowed a MR save - the target was only killed if it failed. Most supercombatants have high MR. Was this actually changed in Dom II, or does it still have the MR save? If the latter, then Piercers combined with Curse would probably be more effective.