Fun with Jotunheim - Utgard theme

licker · #1 January 7th, 2004, 05:27 PM

Isn't the new path cost for the Green Naga bugged? I was playing around with Green Naga for Miasma Ctis, and it seemed I was double charged for the 2nd path...

Anyway, nice strat for Jotun, I had fooled around with the Woodsmen as well, though I went water9 nature4 with a Son of Neifel. The quickness was pretty nice with them on the flanks (as you say), and since most (if not all) of the commanders are sacred getting quickness on them was nice too. Actually I think I was using the Neifel theme where maybe more of the commanders are sacred, I can't remember the other Jotun themes anymore since I'm addicted to Neifel Giants

My biggest problem though was finding something useful to use all my water magic on, the summons just didn't seem as 'cool' (heh

) as other paths. I usually set up some blood anyway, though that's probably sub standard for Jotun, but Ice Devils do fit in pretty well once you get to them.

Psitticine · #2 January 7th, 2004, 06:19 PM

Just tested the Green Naga and she's working fine now, with a 20 point opening cost, in the beta-patch. I'm not sure if she was bugged before or not.

licker · #3 January 7th, 2004, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Psitticine:
Just tested the Green Naga and she's working fine now, with a 20 point opening cost, in the beta-patch. I'm not sure if she was bugged before or not.

She was bugged before, with a 40pt cost, glad to hear its fixed

Truper · #4 January 7th, 2004, 08:18 PM

Quote:

I'm hoping summon Lamia's will be very impressive with the high nature and the Naga's special ability of getting more. Are Lamia's sacred or is that just my memory being hopeful?

I don't believe they are sacred, but I *am* sure they are cold-blooded. A point to consider.

Quote:

One of the big questions is what to mix in to the giants as small creatures can occupy the same space as a giant making up for reduced number of attacks per square. Winter wolves were great for this in Dom1 but not so easy to get with this race early.

Consider Manikins to mix with the giants. Since you're concentrating on construction anyway, they'll give you a good way to use your nature gems.

Quote:

The Herses and Jarls are also very effective.

I agree on the Herses - especially with the bless effects you've managed to get. I've never found a good reson to build Jarls though. They're a bit better than the Herses, but much more expensive. And the Godes have the priest power for Sermon of Courage. How are you using the Jarls?

Keir Maxwell · #5 January 7th, 2004, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Truper:

quote:
Are Lamia's sacred or is that just my memory being hopeful?

I don't believe they are sacred, but I *am* sure they are cold-blooded. A point to consider.

Oops - good point. Damn, damn, damn.

Quote:

quote:
One of the big questions is what to mix in to the giants as small creatures can occupy the same space as a giant making up for reduced number of attacks per square. Winter wolves were great for this in Dom1 but not so easy to get with this race early.

Consider Manikins to mix with the giants. Since you're concentrating on construction anyway, they'll give you a good way to use your nature gems.

Good idea. The other idea I had is summon spirits which would be great but is along way to go with research.

Quote:

quote:
The Herses and Jarls are also very effective.

I agree on the Herses - especially with the bless effects you've managed to get. I've never found a good reson to build Jarls though. They're a bit better than the Herses, but much more expensive. And the Godes have the priest power for Sermon of Courage. How are you using the Jarls?

Jarls can bless and some turns I don't want to spend the extra gold for the Gode but need a bless capable commander. In the long term Gode's are more the way to go but the odd Jarl can be handy as they are an improvement over a Herse as an SC and if you are beaking one commander off to do a job they are much better than Herses but not as expensive as Gode's. Sermon of Courage, while always good, is not as important due to the high morale and berserk keeping the Woodsmen going.

I must admit to being rather happy at having made a race using a magic path at 10 work well.

I'll get some more play in today and see how it shapes out as the game goes on.

A thanks to Saber for the combat sim results which made me think about Woodsmen again.

Cheers

Keir

alexti · #6 January 8th, 2004, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keir Maxwell:
Jotunheim Utgard theme
Green Naga, nature10, Fire4, Dom6
Order3, sloth2, cold2, growth1, misfortune3, drain2.
Castle (could take the fortified city)

Interesting strategy. I wonder if Iron Woods would work better with your plan? 25pts cheaper, plus extra death gem income from the start is usable for those helmets and skull mentors.

Alex

Humer · #7 January 8th, 2004, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Truper:

quote:
I'm hoping summon Lamia's will be very impressive with the high nature and the Naga's special ability of getting more. Are Lamia's sacred or is that just my memory being hopeful?

I don't believe they are sacred, but I *am* sure they are cold-blooded. A point to consider.

They are not sacred and are cold-blooded. So they get VERY fatigued pretty quickly. OTOH, you get +2 lamias for every point of nature magic beyond minimum, so 10N mage makes *really* good use of 5 nature gems. What was it, now... 3 lamias per casting, 3N requisite... that makes 3+2*7 = 17 lamias per casting, IIRC. Not too shabby at all!

Quote:

quote:
One of the big questions is what to mix in to the giants as small creatures can occupy the same space as a giant making up for reduced number of attacks per square. Winter wolves were great for this in Dom1 but not so easy to get with this race early.

Consider Manikins to mix with the giants. Since you're concentrating on construction anyway, they'll give you a good way to use your nature gems.

No to Manikins, yes to Mandragoras. They're the ones that get additional units for higher nature skill, unlike Manikins (was it 10 per 10 gems?).

Point is that Jotunheim desperately needs bulk troops to mix with giants. You cannot rely on indies unless you find and fortify a decent province. I'd go for a mix of both Mandragoras and Lamias (if high-nature pretender) for mass-summons so that not all of the army is banished to oblivion. Mix in the occasional clockwork horror.

I kinda like the Ether Gate too, ethereal troops with magic weapons, but they are expensive - 90 pearls for 20-ish troops and leader (which seem to have same magics than nornas). Mix in dispossessed spirits and you have your frontline troops. BTW, do Ether Gate's troops' moon blades and -lance do double damage to magic beings as per forgable moon blade?

- Humer