patch 2.08 is out

Originally posted by Arryn:
Whether what IW chose as the solution is a "flaw" depends on perspective, and it also depends on whether the very reasonable suggestion that's been made, namely that of auto-retreating into adjacent provinces, was considered by the devs at the time they decided to opt for auto-kill.

Well as Kris said, what happens with the immobile units and how are they supposed to Flee? Does that mean that they have to code things specifically for immobiles? And what about if it's in a Castle? Why would the defender flee if he's holding his castle in a titanic struggle? And does he die if he has nowhere to flee to?

There are more ramifications than just blanket ones, which have to be considered and considered for coding.

I'm not saying that something couldn't, wouldn't shouldn't be implemented, but it's hardly cut and dry.

[ February 19, 2004, 01:12: Message edited by: Zen ]

[Arryn]

Zen, as usual you raise valid points. This time in regards to immobile pretenders. Personally, I feel it's silly to just assume that an immobile defender is killed after 50 rounds when the pretender and the intrinsic castle defenses (ie: ballistae, etc) are still alive.

EDIT: The problem comes in that if mobile pretenders auto-retreat, and immobile ones don't (perhaps auto-winning), then game balance goes right out the arrow slit.

[ February 19, 2004, 01:23: Message edited by: Arryn ]

[Zapmeister]

Zen is spot on. The devs get to choose between the status quo, or opening a can of worms that will not leave the critics satisfied until every alleged "unrealistic" scenario is addressed.

If I were a developer in this position, I know which I'd choose. There are way more important issues to worry about.

[Gateway103]

(humour)

Or you can just think that the Gods to whom the Wish spell is directed to are watching every battle as well as the development in whatever lands as "entertainment".

And they simply got bored after the 40-turn time limit and decided to will the combatants out of existence so as to relieve themselves of the boredom (additional "entertainment"). And to be impartial, they willed all sides into nothingness, so as not to favor anybody.

(/humour)

-Gateway103

[navrunner]

Was the "Automeele: molesting the dead" error fixed in this patch?
I guess there is actually two parts to this question:
1) Was the situation that caused this error fixed so that it will not occur with new, 2.08, games?
2) Or was the error fixed so that old, 2.06, games that got the error will no longer generate the error?
3) Yes, I cannot count , the occurance of this error is low and is toward the bottom of the list?

[Chris Byler]

Another nicely evil possibility for preventing stalemates without the forced, artificial feel of the current system: any battle over a certain length has an increasing chance of attracting the attention of Lammashtas, Horrors or other nasties, who will be glad to clean up the paralyzed or unconscious remnants. Both have armor piercing or negating attacks, IIRC, and can hit hard enough to overcome regeneration even on Gods (if the God is defenseless). The longer the battle drags on, the more unpleasant surprises are attracted to the battlefield... I don't think there's anything that could survive being surrounded by Doom Horrors while unconscious.

This would still usually have the same *practical* result as the current system (all the paralyzed/unconscious units are eliminated), but would be less likely to offend certain players - at least there's some rationale for the deaths. And it would look cool.

Edit: You might still want a hardcoded time limit to make *sure* the game doesn't hang in the hosting - but move it back another 20 or so turns after the horror attacks start, so that it will be almost impossible for the time limit to actually be triggered. The theoretical possibility won't bother players nearly as much as having it actually happen.

[ February 19, 2004, 12:21: Message edited by: Chris Byler ]

[PDF]

Why so many complicated solutions for the -simple- stalemate problem ?
I don't even see why the game has to kill anyone in order to stop stalemates..
Already battles are stopped on turn 50, the only needed change would be to consider that as a "retreat" for both sides (night falls, everyone tired...), with all spells effect "fastforwarded" to their end (so poison would kill, but paralyze would end)
This would give technically a defender victory, as the attacker wasn't able to beat him. That the 50 turns consisted entirely of arrow shooting or ineffective spell casting is not an issue ...

[ February 19, 2004, 13:20: Message edited by: PDF ]