patch 2.08 is out

[Gateway103]

(humour)

Or you can just think that the Gods to whom the Wish spell is directed to are watching every battle as well as the development in whatever lands as "entertainment".

And they simply got bored after the 40-turn time limit and decided to will the combatants out of existence so as to relieve themselves of the boredom (additional "entertainment"). And to be impartial, they willed all sides into nothingness, so as not to favor anybody.

(/humour)

-Gateway103

[navrunner]

Was the "Automeele: molesting the dead" error fixed in this patch?
I guess there is actually two parts to this question:
1) Was the situation that caused this error fixed so that it will not occur with new, 2.08, games?
2) Or was the error fixed so that old, 2.06, games that got the error will no longer generate the error?
3) Yes, I cannot count , the occurance of this error is low and is toward the bottom of the list?

[PDF]

Why so many complicated solutions for the -simple- stalemate problem ?
I don't even see why the game has to kill anyone in order to stop stalemates..
Already battles are stopped on turn 50, the only needed change would be to consider that as a "retreat" for both sides (night falls, everyone tired...), with all spells effect "fastforwarded" to their end (so poison would kill, but paralyze would end)
This would give technically a defender victory, as the attacker wasn't able to beat him. That the 50 turns consisted entirely of arrow shooting or ineffective spell casting is not an issue ...

[ February 19, 2004, 13:20: Message edited by: PDF ]

[SurvivalistMerc]

Arryn,

I like your new picture under your name, by the way...very creative. I don't actually assert that current game mechanics are inconsistent with your "always on" approach to magical items' effects. Merely that a possible rationale for my new proposed mechanic of death for the helpless paralyzed individual would be that the item has ceased to function. There are plenty of situations in which an item needs tobe weilded in order to function. I would argue that a paralyzed individual is incapable of weilding items which must be weilded to function.

NT Jedi,

I do not conclude that the unit is unconscious. Merely that he can become helpless if he has no defenders. Many types of paralyzing poisons do not render one unconscious unless they stop movement of the diaphragm, which will result in death. To the contrary, the paralyzed victim is aware of everything around him or her, can still feel, see, taste, etc. but can't move a muscle.

I don't understand the sort of immobile paralysis in Dom 2 to be "paralyzed by fear."

Really...paralysis should be whatever the devs have in mind for it. And I don't mean to say that I wouldn't defer to them by any of my discussions in this forum. Currently, paralyzed at the end of a battle means death for attackers. I find this to be the outcome I would desire. And it seems also to be the outcome the devs intend, but of course I won't know that unless they actually speak on the issue.

It's good that we both agree on Velk's proposal.

Graeme Dice,

The sphinx is immobile and, if the attacker, will die anyway at the end of turn 50 by the time out period. Also, sphinxes may no longer be able to become attackers post-patch, which I think removed teleporting sphinx abuse.

I take your point that the physical structure doesn't suddenly fall apart. But in the situation you describe the creature is unable to attack and can be attacked repeatedly for a period of a month without opportunity for reprisal. It's vulnerable in a different way because it is incapable of fighting back. When it can cast spells, you have to see what effect those spells will have on the other army. Once it can no longer cast, there is no longer any need to see what happens to the opposing army, just what happens to the sphinx.

Are you sure paralyze has a less than 5% success rate with a decent MR? That did not seem to be folks' experience pre-patch. I know the system is changed post the 2.08 patch, but are you certain of this number?

Moodgiesanta,

You are exactly right...if the game weren't so amazing, we wouldn't be having this paralysis discussion.

Kristoffer O,
Velk in his original example required that the units not be immobile for the retreat rather than a rout to occur. Not that you will necessarily agree with him, but he probably envisions, as I do, that an attacking sphinx, if that still happens after 2.08, would die rather than retreat after turn 50.

Zen,

I agree with you that limitation would be a better word. And it may in fact be what was meant but poorly articulated by those starting the paralysis discussion here.

Arryn,

Defenders would never have to auto-retreat. Because if the battle isn't resolved after turn 50, the defenders auto-win. Which I don't think should be changed. In your proposed solution (which I don't completely support), the only change would be allowing certain attackers to retreat rather than be auto-killed at the end of turn 50. Defenders would not need to retreat because they have "won." I still don't think the paralyzed ones should get to retreat, but that would be for the devs to decide.

Chris Byler,

What will prevent these horrors from attacking the defenders? Or will both sides be destroyed?

PDF,
The game still probably has to kill immobiles in order to stop stalemates when the immobile pretender is attacking. I'm still not so sure I like the paralyzed guys getting to retreat. But that may be my own bias that something has to be able to effectively kill supercombatants.

[licker]

This is still going on?

Here's a new one for you...

Lets say that if a battle isn't finished by turn (whatever) that it is considered drawn, and that the forces will show up again *next turn* to battle again. All afflictions/conditions can be kept (or not) and all movement *out* of that province is disallowed, while movement in (consider it reinforcements) is allowed. That might be a pain to code, but as you can already have castle seiges (this is just a siege with forced combat...) some kind of code for two nations in the same province exists (of course what happens with more than 2 nations in the province... that's tricky...).

Anyway, another suggestion to the percieved problem (which I personally don't see as a problem, but well I'm trying to be helpful )

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by SurvivalistMerc:
Are you sure paralyze has a less than 5% success rate with a decent MR? That did not seem to be folks' experience pre-patch. I know the system is changed post the 2.08 patch, but are you certain of this number?

With a magic resist of 25, any given spell has about a 1% success rate with standard penetration. With high astral skill on the victim, the effective penetration will be reduced as well for all astral spells.

[SurvivalistMerc]

licker,

I think that your proposal would favor supercombatants and would certainly be very kind to attacking sphinxes (if such still exist). Castle seiges aren't really forced battles...the attacking force can move away anytime it gets tire of the seige.

Graeme Dice,

If there's a less than 1% chance that you're going to fall victim to paralysis...why would you be too concerned if you to. It's still not as bad as the insta-death of soul slaw. And if the risk is that small...and you die...you exposed yourself to combat and got unlucky and died.

I heard somewhere that paralyze gets a bonus to penetration. At least that was what folks were saying when calling it the "SC killer" pre-patch 2.08. No idea whether that is still true or not since I haven't patched...too many stories of things going wrong.

[Gandalf Parker]

My upgrade on one copy failed because the Command_Line_Switches file was the wrong Version. It was ver2.00
Wont that cause a problem for people who buy the game now and try to upgrade to ver 2.08?

OK deleting the switches file will let it upgrade. But I get no new switches file. Looks like I will need to grab the docs off of my linux Version (which updates alot more files than the Win Version).

Hmmm I dont see anythinga bout a preexec switch.

[ February 19, 2004, 20:07: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by SurvivalistMerc:
I heard somewhere that paralyze gets a bonus to penetration. At least that was what folks were saying when calling it the "SC killer" pre-patch 2.08. No idea whether that is still true or not since I haven't patched...too many stories of things going wrong.

The reason it has a penetration bonus is that it's astra 2, so an astral 4 mage gets a bonus of 1, while you need an astral 5 mage for bonus penetration with soul slay. The other reason it was too effective is that it hit the target twice for every cast. As for upgrading to 2.08, the only problems I see are those with the Utgard theme.

[SurvivalistMerc]

Graeme Dice,

There have also been stories of crashes during hosting. I have no idea how common they are or whether they are related to operating system.